Balpin Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 What if I was, which I'm not? Political persuasion is no bar to hard work, innovation or generally being clever. It certainly isnt, but changing political allegance as the wind blows is not really on, is it? Fair weathermen some people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamrocker Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 and i think your still living in 1972, move on fella, times have changed, somethings for the better, some things for the worst, its life Of course times have changed but it doesnt mean they have changed for the better problem is this generation doesnt know any different and are being royally screwed daily ,that wouldnt have happened pre Thatcher,she conned everyone with the right to buy ,destroyed the steel and mining industries and subsequently had the new "middle" class by the goolies.Some of us remember pre Thatcher and some of us like myself,Wednesday1 etc dont forget the deprivation she put thousands of people through,maybe this generation shouldnt be so complacent ,read and learn and never forget,if they had the Tory party would still be the opposition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Around 1983 and closed by the British Steel Corporation. That was gratitude for you after they worked through the 1980 BSC steel strike and were championed at the time by the old hag. I don't know about Hadfield's case in particuilar but a lot of struggling steelworks agreed to be under state control in return for the subsidies I have been banging on about. By 1983 there was huge overcapcity in steel and Hadfield's had tried a few times to merge with other local companies to rationalise production. The subsidies just delayed the inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 It certainly isnt, but changing political allegance as the wind blows is not really on, is it? Fair weathermen some people are. Not on? There's no requirement to be loyal to any political party, is there? The whole point of a democracy is that people can vote for who they like, not who they are expected to vote for. We can also pick and choose which ever policies, ideas, philosophies or actual actions we like. We are also allowed to change our mind without requesting permission. Perhaps you believe that people should think and do what they are told? This is a lot off topic really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Of course times have changed but it doesnt mean they have changed for the better problem is this generation doesnt know any different and are being royally screwed daily ,that wouldnt have happened pre Thatcher,she conned everyone with the right to buy ,destroyed the steel and mining industries and subsequently had the new "middle" class by the goolies.Some of us remember pre Thatcher and some of us like myself,Wednesday1 etc dont forget the deprivation she put thousands of people through,maybe this generation shouldnt be so complacent ,read and learn and never forget,if they had the Tory party would still be the opposition It's that sort of lefty rhetoric passed down from generation to generation that is holding this city in the 19th century. Perhaps a better message to the next generation would be "Don't make the same mistakes we made. The days of owt for nowt have gone and won't be coming back. Start learning Chinese, son, that's the future." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balpin Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Of course times have changed but it doesnt mean they have changed for the better problem is this generation doesnt know any different and are being royally screwed daily ,that wouldnt have happened pre Thatcher,she conned everyone with the right to buy ,destroyed the steel and mining industries and subsequently had the new "middle" class by the goolies.Some of us remember pre Thatcher and some of us like myself,Wednesday1 etc dont forget the deprivation she put thousands of people through,maybe this generation shouldnt be so complacent ,read and learn and never forget,if they had the Tory party would still be the opposition Spot on, the 80's and 90's were the worst times this country has had. The trouble is, we have a whole new set of young people who cannot remember the times before that. All they know is the brainwashing they have been given by the tory press and media. They have been completely taken over by the establishment. In fact no one younger than about 50 can remeber the times before Thatcher, and it is obvious when you speak to them. They all come out with same crap, bodies in the street, homes in darkness etc. etc., Stalin would be proud of Thatcher, (She obviously studied his ways)the way she destroyed an entire county, and built it up again in her own image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 One that does what it say on the can. One which provides 16 yr olds who can produce rather better than this: "I am college myself and what to no can a college NUS Card be used for cheep bus fares my says hillsborough college and NUS on it." In college? Doing what? Reading English? - Or reading the bloody Beano? If the person who wrote that has English language at 'grade C or above' how did (s)he get it? If (s)he has managed to spend 11 or more years in school without learning basic grammar and without learning how to spell, would you be interested in employing him/her? I'd rather employ a Pole - particularly now that Pole tax has been scrapped. If I employ a Pole, I'll get somebody who speaks Polish, Russian, English (with luck) German (perhaps) Latvian (possibly) Estonian (if I'm lucky) and who is willing to work. If I employ a Brit, I'm likely to get somebody who is: "... college myself and what to no can a college NUS Card be used for cheep bus fares my says hillsborough college and NUS on it." Which one would you hire? That one couldn't even speak English. Perhaps because a lot of them have worthless degrees and are unemployable? Facts and figures, please. How many graduate: Biologists Chemists Physicists Mathematicians Microbiologists Biochemists Organic Chemists Physical Chemists With decent degrees (not a 'scrape' pass) do you have on your list of unemployed? Really? Can you provide evidence to support that (outrageous!) allegation? Last year, Germany was short 75,000 engineers. They're still short. British Engineers can't compete (in the UK) with German Engineers? Why would they bother? I'm not an engineer ... most recently, I was a lawyer. But I do have a (sort of) engineering background and the majority of my friends are engineers. I asked one of my friends (who owns an engineering company) "What chance would my son have of getting a job if he came to Germany?" (My friend happens to think {for some strange reason } that the sun shines out of my son's arse.) He said: "If he wants a a job, I've got one for him." I said "How about elsewhere?" He said: "He can get a job anywhere. The going rate (starting rate) for somebody with his qualifications is £60k." Not in England it's not. 'Engineering' is a dirty word. What do you mean by 'vocational education' - the State-run scheme was (is) crap. Under-funded and based on bullcrap. (I taught in the system and was challenged because I did not have an NVQ in English. Fair comment. I had GCE English Language at grade 1 GCE English Literature at grade 1 GCE English Literature (AO) at grade 1 Use of English (not a graded examination.) At that time, I had a masters' degree and a few other qualifications. Are you talking about 'VQ's or apprenticeships? What's wrong with Latin and Greek? Mastery of either (or preferably both) of those two languages does suggest to a potential employer that the employee may have an enquiring mind? That (s)he might not be as thick as a midden full of pig crap? I'm not suggesting that people who do not study the classics are 'thick' - far from it! But when you encounter people - people in further education - who can get away with saying (they're doing the saying and you're doing the paying) "I am college myself and what to no can a college NUS Card be used for cheep bus fares my says hillsborough college and NUS on it" aren't you inclined to think that there might be advantages in a classical education after all? SO what are you going to do about that? (I share your pain. I don't know.) My grandma wouldn't have settled for that! When I went to school, I could already read up to (current ) year 3 standard. It does help. Agreed! - And many teachers (certainly those of my mother's vintage) quit when the interference from 'those who know better' got worse than the crap they were already expected to put up with in the job. I stopped teaching when the satisfaction I obtained from my work was outweighed by the crap they had to put up with from the government. Anna, you and I are probably singing off the same hymnsheet. If you've got 50 or 60,000 qualified engineers with masters' degrees, I can probably point them in the directions of jobs. I'd bet money on it. If, however, you're offering a bunch of unqualified 'wannabees' I'm less than optimistic. I will work with you to provide employment opportunities for all those highly-qualified engineers who you claim can't get jobs. I'll rise to the challenge. Give me the names and the qualifications and I will try to find the jobs. The semi literate quote you give is shocking. Do you think this is typical? I wouldn't have thought so, but if it is we are in real trouble. I can assure you that from my experience as a teacher it won't be for the want of trying on the teacher's part. Regarding immigrants who can't speak English - well they should. I thought something was being done about this? Doesn't everyone who applies to come to Britain now have to learn English? Is this happening? Re graduates - no evidence, all hearsay, newspaper reports etc, but I do have a friend with a degree in chemistry working in a lab on £12,000 a yesr. I also have another friend who is trying to recruit a glorified shop assistant on low wages who has had 78 applicants, many of them graduates. I hope some graduates PM you to ask for your help in aquiring a job. Is engineering really a dirty word? Why is that? I thought it was a well respected subject. We certainly need engineers in this country. There's nothing wrong with Latin and Greek, I was genuinely asking if you would like to see it (although it seems some students can barely manage English...) There's so much wrong with society and education at the moment thanks to years of consistant meddling, that it's hard to know where to start. And you're right that many good and experienced teachers have left the profession. I used to be a keen advocate of the comprehensive system thinking it gave an equal chance to all, but I must admit to disappointment at the way it's turned out. If all Comps had undertaken the values of the Grammar school system, it may have turned out better. What I didn't like about the actual Grammar school system was that those who didn't make it were more or less written off on the strength of 1 exam on a certain day. Germany doesn't seem to have this snobbery about vocational training, but here in Britain academia is all. What would I like to see? Well... Parents given guidelines on parenting, with targets and milestones that children should reach, not just before school but during and after. With a skills based component. Much smaller class sizes in infant and junior schools (10 -15max) School day extended to 5.0pm in Secondary schools, with the last 2 hours given over to 'soft' skills, sports, discussions, interests, etc. Return to Grammar schools to run alongside Comprehensives and vocational colleges. Every manufacturer, business, office etc in the land compelled to offer x number of paid, quality apprenticeships, proportionate to the size of business and need in the country. Any young person not in employment, education or taining at 18 to do a compulsory 12 months in the army, or army style camp. Not as a punishment, but as an opportunity, this could perhaps be followed up with a voluntary 12 months abroad in some form of volunteer work. Money in the form of grants etc to be given to Universities for research and development. A concerted effort by te media to stop 'dumbing down' and give young people good role models. A return to manners and civility. Zero tolerance for bad or yobbish behaviour. All in positions of power and influence to set exemplary standards of behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balpin Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Not on? There's no requirement to be loyal to any political party, is there? The whole point of a democracy is that people can vote for who they like, not who they are expected to vote for. We can also pick and choose which ever policies, ideas, philosophies or actual actions we like. We are also allowed to change our mind without requesting permission. Perhaps you believe that people should think and do what they are told? This is a lot off topic really. You do as you are told, every day of your life. And if you change your political alliegance at a whim, then your opinions do not count for much do they? It sounds as if you have the opinion of the last bloke you spoke to, if that is your attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 You do as you are told, every day of your life. And if you change your political alliegance at a whim, then your opinions do not count for much do they? It sounds as if you have the opinion of the last bloke you spoke to, if that is your attitude. What are you on about? You're repeating yourself like some bloke living rough under a bridge and shouting inexactitudes at passing traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balpin Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 What are you on about? You're repeating yourself like some bloke living rough under a bridge and shouting inexactitudes at passing traffic. Nice one, rattled eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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