Jim Graham Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Spot on, the 80's and 90's were the worst times this country has had. The trouble is, we have a whole new set of young people who cannot remember the times before that. All they know is the brainwashing they have been given by the tory press and media. They have been completely taken over by the establishment. In fact no one younger than about 50 can remeber the times before Thatcher, and it is obvious when you speak to them. They all come out with same crap, bodies in the street, homes in darkness etc. etc., Stalin would be proud of Thatcher, (She obviously studied his ways)the way she destroyed an entire county, and built it up again in her own image. Nurse!! Balpin's out of bed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 It's that sort of lefty rhetoric passed down from generation to generation that is holding this city in the 19th century. Perhaps a better message to the next generation would be "Don't make the same mistakes we made. The days of owt for nowt have gone and won't be coming back. Start learning Chinese, son, that's the future." I think a lot of English institutions are also languishing in the 19th century, and that is certainly holding the country back. We are so used to thinking 'our xxxxx system is the best in the world' from the old Empire days, without ever considering an alternative. We've failed to modernise and move on. The legal system, for example could to do with a major shake up, it wastes immense amounts of time and money in archaic practices, likewise our political system is awash with overmanning, and ancient customs. A lot of this is to do with maintaining privelage and status, which harks back to landed gentry and class. We are not living in days of Empire, we need to take a good look around at the way other countries manage things, take the best ideas and modernise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The semi literate quote you give is shocking. Do you think this is typical? I wouldn't have thought so, but if it is we are in real trouble. I can assure you that from my experience as a teacher it won't be for the want of trying on the teacher's part. Regarding immigrants who can't speak English - well they should. I thought something was being done about this? Doesn't everyone who applies to come to Britain now have to learn English? Is this happening? Re graduates - no evidence, all hearsay, newspaper reports etc, but I do have a friend with a degree in chemistry working in a lab on £12,000 a yesr. I also have another friend who is trying to recruit a glorified shop assistant on low wages who has had 78 applicants, many of them graduates. I hope some graduates PM you to ask for your help in aquiring a job. Is engineering really a dirty word? Why is that? I thought it was a well respected subject. We certainly need engineers in this country. There's nothing wrong with Latin and Greek, I was genuinely asking if you would like to see it (although it seems some students can barely manage English...) There's so much wrong with society and education at the moment thanks to years of consistant meddling, that it's hard to know where to start. And you're right that many good and experienced teachers have left the profession. I used to be a keen advocate of the comprehensive system thinking it gave an equal chance to all, but I must admit to disappointment at the way it's turned out. If all Comps had undertaken the values of the Grammar school system, it may have turned out better. What I didn't like about the actual Grammar school system was that those who didn't make it were more or less written off on the strength of 1 exam on a certain day. Germany doesn't seem to have this snobbery about vocational training, but here in Britain academia is all. What would I like to see? Well... Parents given guidelines on parenting, with targets and milestones that children should reach, not just before school but during and after. With a skills based component. Much smaller class sizes in infant and junior schools (10 -15max) School day extended to 5.0pm in Secondary schools, with the last 2 hours given over to 'soft' skills, sports, discussions, interests, etc. Return to Grammar schools to run alongside Comprehensives and vocational colleges. Every manufacturer, business, office etc in the land compelled to offer x number of paid, quality apprenticeships, proportionate to the size of business and need in the country. Any young person not in employment, education or taining at 18 to do a compulsory 12 months in the army, or army style camp. Not as a punishment, but as an opportunity, this could perhaps be followed up with a voluntary 12 months abroad in some form of volunteer work. Money in the form of grants etc to be given to Universities for research and development. A concerted effort by te media to stop 'dumbing down' and give young people good role models. A return to manners and civility. Zero tolerance for bad or yobbish behaviour. All in positions of power and influence to set exemplary standards of behaviour. Targets for parents ? A tad hypocritical isn't it ? Listen to any teacher long enough and they'll bang on about targets and you want to pass the buck to parents ? Unlikely. Parents should be offered parenting classes but who will take them ? Ask anyone if they are a bad driver and nearly all will bristle and say "I'm a very good driver". Same thing with parenting. Nobody will say I'm a bad parent until it's way way way too late. Vocational training ? Great idea poorly done. But it always will be. For starters colleges (not universities) will really struggle to provide anywhere near up to date equipment and possibly techniques in certain fields. Business will always be a long way in front. Secondly I'm not sure enough businesses will want to commit the required amount of money to train someone well. An old aquaintance of mine once got trained from 16 up from the local council in the art of accounting. As soon as they qualified, to a professional level at the councils cost they jumped ship as fast as they could. I'm not sure councils can sustain that, alot of businesses certainly can't. I don't know how to get round it. Contracts ? Morals ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_W Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Spot on, the 80's and 90's were the worst times this country has had. The trouble is, we have a whole new set of young people who cannot remember the times before that. All they know is the brainwashing they have been given by the tory press and media. They have been completely taken over by the establishment. In fact no one younger than about 50 can remeber the times before Thatcher, and it is obvious when you speak to them. They all come out with same crap, bodies in the street, homes in darkness etc. etc., Stalin would be proud of Thatcher, (She obviously studied his ways)the way she destroyed an entire county, and built it up again in her own image. It's not the fault of the Tory press though is it, youngsters don't read the 'Tory Press' as you call it ! It's the whole system of lefty liberalist education, politicised by the Labour party who threw our taxes at it ...... Education, Education, Education ..... what a load of costly bull ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Nice one, rattled eh? Not at all. I just don't understand what you're saying. You could try explaining yourself instead of assuming that we'll get the hang of your strain of Tourettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Targets for parents ? A tad hypocritical isn't it ? Listen to any teacher long enough and they'll bang on about targets and you want to pass the buck to parents ? Unlikely. Parents should be offered parenting classes but who will take them ? Ask anyone if they are a bad driver and nearly all will bristle and say "I'm a very good driver". Same thing with parenting. Nobody will say I'm a bad parent until it's way way way too late. Vocational training ? Great idea poorly done. But it always will be. For starters colleges (not universities) will really struggle to provide anywhere near up to date equipment and possibly techniques in certain fields. Business will always be a long way in front. Secondly I'm not sure enough businesses will want to commit the required amount of money to train someone well. An old aquaintance of mine once got trained from 16 up from the local council in the art of accounting. As soon as they qualified, to a professional level at the councils cost they jumped ship as fast as they could. I'm not sure councils can sustain that, alot of businesses certainly can't. I don't know how to get round it. Contracts ? Morals ? I didn't want to use the word 'targets' but you get my drift. Parents used to take a pride in a child well brought up, and feel shamed if they failed to do a good job. - Peer pressure - p'haps that could make them shape up. Parenting is one of the skills that could be taught in the extra 2 hours a day at school time. Schools know who the bad parents are. Perhaps the parents attending mandatory parenting classes could be a countrywide sanction for their kids poor behaviour in school Businesses could be funded directly to provide quality training instead of throwing money at useless companies like A4e. Vocational training is done well in Germany, or so we are led to believe. Maybe we could copy their system. It annoys me how often we copy the American model which is pants, when we have the best education systems in the world on our doorstep Scandinavia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Spot on, the 80's and 90's were the worst times this country has had. The trouble is, we have a whole new set of young people who cannot remember the times before that. errrrm 2 points 1: wasnt the 70s as bad if not worse than the 80s / 90s? winter of discontent, rubbish in the streets, 3 day weeks, nf marches, riots etc etc 2: you make it out as tho having young people is a new phenomena?? havent we always had young, middle and old aged people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I think a lot of English institutions are also languishing in the 19th century, and that is certainly holding the country back. We are so used to thinking 'our xxxxx system is the best in the world' from the old Empire days, without ever considering an alternative. We've failed to modernise and move on. The legal system, for example could to do with a major shake up, it wastes immense amounts of time and money in archaic practices, likewise our political system is awash with overmanning, and ancient customs. A lot of this is to do with maintaining privelage and status, which harks back to landed gentry and class. We are not living in days of Empire, we need to take a good look around at the way other countries manage things, take the best ideas and modernise. I agree totally. We have some very powerful vested interests making sure nothing changes to their disadvantage. You only have to look at the NHS to see that. Doctors fought tooth and claw no to be a part of the NHS. Now they realise they are on to a good thing so now they are fighting to keep it run by them for them. Our legal system is similarly cluttered with political lawyers making laws that are just vague enough to need their constant attention at huge expense. And you never hear anyone complaining they can't find a lawyer or third world countries asking us to send them more lawyers. All the public services are awash with overmanning and as I regularly comment we have a triple dependancy culture of councils dependant on handouts to fund services, people relying on councils for handouts and a whole class of so called professionals managing the handouts who are dependant on there being a handout system. So who is there left to sort it all out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamrocker Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 It's that sort of lefty rhetoric passed down from generation to generation that is holding this city in the 19th century. Perhaps a better message to the next generation would be "Don't make the same mistakes we made. The days of owt for nowt have gone and won't be coming back. Start learning Chinese, son, that's the future." What can I say ?19th century ?obviously you didnt study history at school,the days of owt for nowt is certainly prevalent in todays society more so than in the past ,ask any banker with their obscene bonuses and MP's with their constant fiddling of claims..take the blinkers off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balpin Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 errrrm 2 points 1: wasnt the 70s as bad if not worse than the 80s / 90s? winter of discontent, rubbish in the streets, 3 day weeks, nf marches, riots etc etc 2: you make it out as tho having young people is a new phenomena?? havent we always had young, middle and old aged people? 1) the 70's were the best years of my life, I travelled the world, met my wife, and had my first child, I never had so much fun. 2)Pre Thatcher young people always had something to look forward to. She stopped all that, as you know. The wholesale devastation of our country was to much to bear for many of us, who disappearred from this mortal coil. Mind you if it wasnt for her you woulng have all that crap music you used to listen to would you? And you come on here as an establishment man, I cant believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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