Is it ok to kill a newborn?

[mj.scuba]

A woman I was friends with years ago, who was just a day older than me, was an adopted child, and her "parents" treated her abominably, she was little better than a slave. She had a shocking existence.

 

this adoptive mother, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2112735/Russian-boy-rejected-adopted-mother-thriving-foster-home-outside-Moscow.html

certainly loved and cherished the little boy she adopted...

 

 

Fairly pointless examples which don`t really add anything, since plenty of children are abused by parents who willingly went ahead with their pregnancy.

 

Adoption will never be 100% free of abuse, neither will biological parenthood.

 

I've known a couple of people who were adopted, great people with loving adoptive parents. Personally, I'm glad their birth mother decided to have them.

[janie48]

I find it extremely self righteous and galling to say the least, that a male self appointed moral arbiter feels that the rights of a foetus/unborn child somehow takes priority of those of a woman with an unwanted pregnancy. Furthermore, to state that any woman who finds herself having to resort to a back street abortionist deserves what she gets is utterly despicable in my view.

 

The point that I was trying to make was that adoption is frequently not the happy ever after ending. I have met women who had unwanted babies adopted and have never come to terms with it and lived partly in fear if the day when the said child would contact them. I have yet to meet a woman who has been traumatised and never come to terms with terminating an unwanted pregnancy.

 

He doesn't say how or why he reached the strong views he has,he doesn't have to,perhaps he needed to only see this website link posted on the first page of this thread and scroll down the page as i did.It was a from a poster who believed in pro-choice.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_development

 

I'm not saying i agree with some of the views he expressed,(or perhaps i should say the way he expressed them) but he has a right to condemn the action of abortion if he is against it,even though i believe he should have stuck to condemning the act,rather then the person who makes the choice,and at least in the face of majority opposition he is not afraid to express his views. Aside from the issue being discussed on here, i admire anyone for doing that,because as i have witnessed on viewing other threads a person can be challenged in a confrontational way by many, Just for expressing a different view to others.Some people may not wish to air their views because of that. I can understand why.

[*bobcat*]

I have yet to meet a woman who has been traumatised and never come to terms with terminating an unwanted pregnancy.

 

Oh come on Suffy, it's just like a walk in the park! You go in Hospital, you put your feet up and in seconds it's all over and done with....and you go out that very same night with your make-up on and your Bessie's by your side!

 

Reality! You are given counselling for a reason! you are in alot of pain! if it's the tablet form. You are told not to look at what comes away from you...yet you do.

You think of it quite alot....but you know you was not in the right place to have gone through with it.

You lose alot of blood after...no one is there to heal you, only you.

Giving birth is so easy to do, that's why lot's of people do it, even if they can't feed the said child, even if the child is brought in to a violent relationship and even if everyone else is going to end up paying for the child.

Being responsible costs far more then having something that everyone else has to pay for.

[Suffragette1]

Oh come on Suffy, it's just like a walk in the park! You go in Hospital, you put your feet up and in seconds it's all over and done with....and you go out that very same night with your make-up on and your Bessie's by your side!

 

Reality! You are given counselling for a reason! you are in alot of pain! if it's the tablet form. You are told not to look at what comes away from you...yet you do.

You think of it quite alot....but you know you was not in the right place to have gone through with it.

You lose alot of blood after...no one is there to heal you, only you.

Giving birth is so easy to do, that's why lot's of people do it, even if they can't feed the said child, even if the child is brought in to a violent relationship and even if everyone else is going to end up paying for the child.

Being responsible costs far more then having something that everyone else has to pay for.

The procedure itself is indeed an unpleasant one and that can have lasting after effects, both physically and emotionally. However, the actual decision to terminate itself, if the woman in question did not want to continue for whatever reason, in my experience is seldom one that is regretted or results in a lifetime of guilt.

[*bobcat*]

The procedure itself is indeed an unpleasant one and that can have lasting after effects, both physically and emotionally. However, the actual decision to terminate itself, if the woman in question did not want to continue for whatever reason, in my experience is seldom one that is regretted or results in a lifetime of guilt.

 

Oh crickey, without a doubt.

It's only the one's on forum's, the armchair experts or religious men that want you to feel guilty.

[janie48]

The procedure itself is indeed an unpleasant one and that can have lasting after effects, both physically and emotionally. However, the actual decision to terminate itself, if the woman in question did not want to continue for whatever reason, in my experience is seldom one that is regretted or results in a lifetime of guilt.

 

Nor should a woman feel guilty,regrets serve no purpose. Only they have to be aware that the issue of abortion will always from time to time be discussed in the media etc, and they have to come to terms with that even if sometimes it may appear that they are being judged.

[Suffragette1]

Nor should a woman feel guilty,regrets serve no purpose. Only they have to be aware that the issue of abortion will always from time to time be discussed in the media etc, and they have to come to terms with that even if sometimes it may appear that they are being judged.

 

I think that there a lot of myths about abortion and how traumatic it is etc. as I said, the procedure is without doubt grim, but for the majority of women who decide to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, it is quite clearcut. Counselling is available. The ones who have the biggest trauma to deal with are those who have later term abortions, usually following the discovery of some kind of abnormality of the foetus, who have to have an induced labour. That must be unbelievably grim, however, still for them, the preferred alternative.

 

In my view, the religionistas should keep out of the entire debate. If you can't argue from a logical rather than religious viewpoint, particularly as a male, they have no business trying to influence government policy.

[janie48]

I think that there a lot of myths about abortion and how traumatic it is etc. as I said, the procedure is without doubt grim, but for the majority of women who decide to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, it is quite clearcut. Counselling is available. The ones who have the biggest trauma to deal with are those who have later term abortions, usually following the discovery of some kind of abnormality of the foetus, who have to have an induced labour. That must be unbelievably grim, however, still for them, the preferred alternative.

 

In my view, the religionistas should keep out of the entire debate. If you can't argue from a logical rather than religious viewpoint, particularly as a male, they have no business trying to influence government policy.

 

No, sorry but i can't agree with all those comments When the abortion act was regulated to change the time limits of pregnancy termination religious pro-lifers had some input in goverment changes,they always do when it comes to ethical issues.It may only consist of one or two faith representatives that sit on these ethical commitees,but their views are considered however much you disagree with that.

I don't see why their views should not be heard,even if now they are a minority.

I'd like to just mention that i have two friends who have had abortions.One of them !5 years on is unable to conceive due to the effects of that NHS legal abortion.There are risks! even nowadays,a smaller proportion maybe then what there used to be,but still there and especially with very young girls who sometimes have repeated abortions the results may not be evident till later in life. I could post links if you wish.

Some people actually think that abortion is an easy alternative if the contraception doesn't work.Some men posting in favour of abortion on here,feeling they are doing women a great favour by showing their support and repeating their "its a womans choice" comments,when they have really no idea what it all entails.

There are many childless couples now,some of them have been going through IVF for years without success. Fertility treatment in the NHS is getting more difficult. Thousands of couples have applied to adopt babies there are so few babies to adopt available.Not that one wishes to see unwanted babies born just to satisfy the needs of childlesss couples,I'm just stating a fact.

[JFKvsNixon]

No, sorry but i can't agree with all those comments When the abortion act was regulated to change the time limits of pregnancy termination religious pro-lifers had some input in goverment changes,they always do when it comes to ethical issues.It may only consist of one or two faith representatives that sit on these ethical commitees,but their views are considered however much you disagree with that.

I don't see why their views should not be heard,even if now they are a minority.

I'd like to just mention that i have two friends who have had abortions.One of them !5 years on is unable to conceive due to the effects of that NHS legal abortion.There are risks! even nowadays,a smaller proportion maybe then what there used to be,but still there and especially with very young girls who sometimes have repeated abortions the results may not be evident till later in life. I could post links if you wish.

Some people actually think that abortion is an easy alternative if the contraception doesn't work.Some men posting in favour of abortion on here,feeling they are doing women a great favour by showing their support and repeating their "its a womans choice" comments,when they have really no idea what it all entails.

There are many childless couples now,some of them have been going through IVF for years without success. Fertility treatment in the NHS is getting more difficult. Thousands of couples have applied to adopt babies there are so few babies to adopt available.Not that one wishes to see unwanted babies born just to satisfy the needs of childlesss couples,I'm just stating a fact.

 

Just as a matter of interest, you say:

 

Some men posting in favour of abortion on here,feeling they are doing women a great favour by showing their support and repeating their "its a womans choice" comments,when they have really no idea what it all entails.

 

You could easily say the same thing about women as well, I don't see the gender as being important. I don't see at all as doing women a favour, in fact I find this attitude very patronising, almost like you believe us men can not come to our own conclusions on a very emotive subject.

[Chris_Sleeps]

There are many childless couples now,some of them have been going through IVF for years without success. Fertility treatment in the NHS is getting more difficult. Thousands of couples have applied to adopt babies there are so few babies to adopt available.

Maybe they should consider adopting an older child, or the masses of children stuck in Eastern Europe orphanages (which, fittingly, are normally the countries with terrible attitudes to abortion).

 

Some wonderful people are infertile, some awful people have masses of children, and some perfectly normal women find themselves in situations where they don't want a pregnancy. Such is life.