quisquose Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I'm not against abortion on the whole just late abortion. The law should definately definately be lowered maybe to twenty weeks for a start. Do you have personal experience suffragette? Have you seen a 'feotus' in real life. I was in labour with my first daughter when she was still classed as a 'foetus' 12 hours later when she was born she was classed legally as a baby. If she'd been born just 12 hours I wouldnt have had to register her birth & death, she wouldnt have had to have a funeral or burial. What physically was any differant in 12 hours?? Nothing except her rights which tells me that those rights need lowering to the even younger 'foetus' I have wrestled with thoughts myself that the stage at which abortion is allowed should be lower. But each time you are presented with a medical scenario, what if this at 21 weeks, or what if that at 22 weeks, any person with empathy is likely to respond with "oh, but of course I'd make an exception in that case". The net result is that even if legal abortion was lowered to 20 weeks, the amount of exceptions to this that we must allow, would mean there would be little difference the the numbers of abortions at all. Nobody chooses to have a late-term abortion. http://www.aheartbreakingchoice.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgksheff Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I would like to see what Dr Minerva writes and not what the Daily Mail says she says. ......... http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/02/22/medethics-2011-100411.full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 That's pretty clinical, but she makes a compelling point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Womerry2 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/02/22/medethics-2011-100411.full Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bethsmummy Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Well I have read it in Its entirity and am as sickened as I was expected to be. I dont want to say anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/02/22/medethics-2011-100411.full They would call it compassionate killing. German Nazi doctors were in favour of that idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 That's pretty clinical, but she makes a compelling point. I agree. As far as I am aware, there are some situations where a newborn has a very severe condition and is allowed to die and not kept alive at all costs. Sometimes, doctors try to gently coax parents into allowing nature to take its course, but more often than not, they want everything possible done to preserve life. On a related issue, I knew a Catholic family who refused all ante-natal tests as they were adamant that had anything shown up, they would have continued the pregnancy as 'we will love it no matter what'. The baby was born with Down's and they gave him up for adoption. I personally find that really difficult to deal with, whereas I have no problems at all with a termination, even a late stage one, on the same grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bethsmummy Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I agree. As far as I am aware, there are some situations where a newborn has a very severe condition and is allowed to die and not kept alive at all costs. Sometimes, doctors try to gently coax parents into allowing nature to take its course, but more often than not, they want everything possible done to preserve life. On a related issue, I knew a Catholic family who refused all ante-natal tests as they were adamant that had anything shown up, they would have continued the pregnancy as 'we will love it no matter what'. The baby was born with Down's and they gave him up for adoption. I personally find that really difficult to deal with, whereas I have no problems at all with a termination, even a late stage one, on the same grounds. I Was told by the doctor, as my first daughter passed away that it may have been for the best as she would almost certainly have had some form of disability. I wanted to scream a the top of my lungs "how wrong you are" I felt I couldve coped with a disability far more than I could cope with death. I honestly cannot comprehend how any parent can feel any differently. I made lots of friends in special care with my third daughter who was born at 26 weeks. I have kept in touch with many of these friends, I meet up with some of them from time to time & let the babies play together. These are babies that were given 20% chance of survival and here they are despite all the odds running and playing and smiling with all the potential for making in huge impact on the world. I watched parents (myself included) Perch at the side of the incubator hour upon hour afraid to leave incase anything would go wrong before their return. I cannot comprehend that any other parent would do any less. I also know that life seems to have a way of doing the right thing without any medical intervention. The babies that were not developing or responding well did seem to eventually pass away. It affected everyone on the unit when it happened. Every parent could relate and truely felt the pain & suffering. My daughter was in hospital for 23 weeks and I cried too many tears in that time not just for my girl but for many others that didnt go home. I think this is natures selective process (I've been there myself) and I think thats the only circumstances in which a baby (beyond 24 weeks gestation) should die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenyweeny Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I dont agree with killing babies and i also think they should bring the abortion limit down,has anyone ever seen an aborted dead baby on the internet,some of these babies are still alive when born and left to die.. shocking i think.We live in a disposable society,when we dont want something we can just get rid.Every child deserves a chance to live some kind of life..Dont get me wrong i am not against abortions providing there is some medical reason to do so.20 weeks is too high and it should be lowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 They would call it compassionate killing. German Nazi doctors were in favour of that idea! Does that make it instantly and unarguably wrong? Here's one for you - everything we know about how the human body reacts to low temperatures is derived from the most evil "nazi science". Should we not use that data, expunge it from the record? Or should we (as we have done) use it to save lives? Even though it was unarguably wrong. Some babies are born facing a short, painful, stressful life. Is it wrong to relieve them of that burden? It's a dark thought by modern 'enlightened' standards, but that shouldn't preclude a sane and calm debate without likening everything to nazis and everything 'nazi' to pure evil. No one is going to dispute the evil of the nazis. But infanticide as common practice is hardly limited to mid 20th century German eugenics. Not by a long chalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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