WeX Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 its a damned stupid idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Im sorry, and I am not prepared to bandy statistices with you (lies damn lies etc) but Privatisation is the answer.Transport is better than it was when it was state owned. The railways are far from perfect but far far better than they were when government run. Prisons are far more humane and well run that they were under the government. The main reason is that the unions are under control, the Prison Officers Association were the stroppiest most ridiculous outfit the TUC ever had. The Railway Union was equally horrible. I wont defend private organisations when they fall short of the standards our society expect. I also think that the apparantly unstoppable rise of G4S is something we should monitor. BUT overall, we are far better off when these services and privatised. That's all just opinion unfortunately and none of it strengthens the case for privatisation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Certain bits for sure. But when most people think of the police they still think of a non-civilian force that is in theory capable of delivering a fair service and ensuring public safety. But they also think of a service that has become deeply corrupted in many respects - we need to repair that. But sometimes, just sometimes, it can't and shouldn't boil down to a simple matter of cost. If you want a good police service it isn't going to be cheap. And if we don't have a good service we aren't going to be safe, or at the very least we won't achieve greater safety than we have now. There is no evidence to prove that a privatised force would make us safer and attempting to prove it could be an experiement that costs lives and plunges whole neigbourhoods into chaos. Let's fix the service we have, not dismantle it. I agree with the majority of what you say, but in lets say, wide load policing, what is wrong with outsourcing this? And then, leaving police to do policing? Our police forces get involved in many areas whereby quite simply they are over qualified to do them. Lets get them doing what we need to do, and as you say, fix these parts and not dismantle them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Also, when a body doesnt have competition, and lets take for instance the police, they end up getting bigger and bigger budgets but these revenues are not necessarily spent on what you and i believe they should be, ie front line policing , but they end up getting spent on obscure, ridiculous schemes to ensure the budgets are spent, so that the following year, they can have an increase. I personally do struggle with privatisation, we only have to look at our rail, phone or fuel industries to see modern day disasters, but, as a nation we need to find the middle ground between the state and the private sector that works for the tax payers and deliveries value for money standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I agree with the majority of what you say, but in lets say, wide load policing, what is wrong with outsourcing this? And then, leaving police to do policing? Our police forces get involved in many areas whereby quite simply they are over qualified to do them. Lets get them doing what we need to do, and as you say, fix these parts and not dismantle them. Like I said in the post you replied to "certain bits for sure". I totally agree that some activities that are considered to be police activities are not really required to be done by non-civilian police. They could easily be done by others, and just effectively too. This doesn't necessarily mean they have to be done privately though - they could be done more cheaply publicly as well. Privatisation is not the automatic solution to the problem, far from it. But if there is evidence-based justification for outsourcing then fair enough - the problem is with policing it would be an experiment and you can't mess with lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Like I said in the post you replied to "certain bits for sure". I totally agree that some activities that are considered to be police activities are not really required to be done by non-civilian police. They could easily be done by others, and just effectively too. This doesn't necessarily mean they have to be done privately though - they could be done more cheaply publicly as well. Privatisation is not the automatic solution to the problem, far from it. But if there is evidence-based justification for outsourcing then fair enough - the problem is with policing it would be an experiment and you can't mess with lives. In order for these "other" functions to be continued by the police, we would have to look at a less qualified and therefore less trained and well paid police officer to do them if these roles remained with the State. How do you think the unions would react to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 In order for these "other" functions to be continued by the police, we would have to look at a less qualified and therefore less trained and well paid police officer to do them if these roles remained with the State. How do you think the unions would react to this? If I was the police union boss I would lower the bar for entry to semi-trained police staff, welcome the new members with open arms and enjoy the overall increased strength it would provide to my union. I not sure the police unions would be that sensible though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 If I was the police union boss I would lower the bar for entry to semi-trained police staff, welcome the new members with open arms and enjoy the overall increased strength it would provide to my union. I not sure the police unions would be that sensible though. You & I both. As you say though, the unions would feel differently and because of previous underhand relationships with the government, they would trust any new changes. Its a vicious circle. Im half way through reading this article......kind of on topic...... http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/mar/03/police-blacklist-link-construction-workers?newsfeed=true have a gander.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Jeez wept, the above article allegedly shows everything dire about our Police and private contractors. In a word, diabolical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Vader Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 If you think our law looks after big nobs before the people, wait until we have a privatised police service. I note they'll be in charge of civil disobedience policing too - very worrying. If you're protesting about THEIR company, you might get a nice crack on the head.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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