xenia Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 That's all just opinion unfortunately and none of it strengthens the case for privatisation Sandor is right. Increased use of the train service (for instance) the reduction of violence in Stadia, all indicate the improvement under privatisation. When thegovernment and POA ran the prison escort service there was an escape a month, the conditions of prisons was beyond disgusting. Privatisation works, not perfect but better. It would improve the NHS. A suggestion; everyone who attends an A&E pays £10, no matter what the issue is. The £10 is refunded if the complaint is judged to be genuine. Result? a 25 % decrease in A&E workload. Sorry to go of topic but after seeing the cretins that A&E staff have to deal with they should be helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenia Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 You & I both. As you say though, the unions would feel differently and because of previous underhand relationships with the government, they would trust any new changes. Its a vicious circle. Im half way through reading this article......kind of on topic...... http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/mar/03/police-blacklist-link-construction-workers?newsfeed=true have a gander.... The Police do not have a union, thank god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 The fix is not to move to structures and processes where accountability becomes even harder to achieve. Privatisation is not the answer. Whenever we have had privatised services in the past they end up costing more and providing worse services - transport, utilities etc... Looking at prisons, privately run prisons still have high rates of re-offending. Private prisons are statistically less safe for inmates (HIMP report 2009). Private prisons in 2010 had 11% of the inmates but received 12.5% of funding. I don't know about the private prisons but privatising utilities did work. It may not look like it but they are very much more efficient and provide better services. Telecoms is a good example of competiton working and you all benefit from it. Water and sewage have never been cleaner or safer. Privatisation is exactly the answer BUT, as I have said ad nauseam, they have to be strongly regulated by properly independant people. The problem is always that politics and dodgy deals get in the way for political expediency. In telecoms the regulatory environment has been beefed up recently and we are seeing mobile phone costs forced down. In other industries the watchdogs are just lapdogs. THAT is the problem with privatisation not the principle itself. Once you have a working private sector you can bear down on cost and quality through regulation. That's something you can't do with the public sector. What cannot be allowed to continue are the bureaucratic, overpaid, underworked, not fit for purpose public sector organisations regulating themselves and finding themselves to be great. They aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenia Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Do contributors not remember the furore when the Community Wardens and uniformed PCSos were introduced under Blair? I think that the presence of these people on the streets has been of benefit. Where I live there are a number of old people and there is no doubt that they are re assured by the patrols of the PCSos. We never see a cop unless he is in a car. None the less the community feels safer due to the presence of the PCSo. We need to see "Policing" in a wider context in that it is not just the Police that protect our society. The private security industry play a vital role protecting businesses and the night time economy. Stewarding organisations protect our sport and leisure facilities. Highways agency patrol the motorways. The list goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Also, when a body doesnt have competition, and lets take for instance the police, they end up getting bigger and bigger budgets but these revenues are not necessarily spent on what you and i believe they should be, ie front line policing , but they end up getting spent on obscure, ridiculous schemes to ensure the budgets are spent, so that the following year, they can have an increase. Chief plod of North Yorks police spent £30,000 on an ensuite shower for HER office so she could get changed at work. Is that the sort of thing you mean? Having said that the police do get their time wasted on barking mad Freedom of Information requests like how many sightings of zombies have been recorded in the area. Frankly, the people who make those requests should just be shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolli_pop Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Chief plod of North Yorks police spent £30,000 on an ensuite shower for HER office so she could get changed at work. Is that the sort of thing you mean? That's not quite what happened, is it? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/6070448.stm Having said that the police do get their time wasted on barking mad Freedom of Information requests like how many sightings of zombies have been recorded in the area. Frankly, the people who make those requests should just be shot. Agreed, though that kind of idiocy is not restricted to the police. The advantage of privatising is, of course, that FoI requests can be binned under the cover of commercial confidentiality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Im sorry, and I am not prepared to bandy statistices with you (lies damn lies etc) but Privatisation is the answer.Transport is better than it was when it was state owned. The railways are far from perfect but far far better than they were when government run. Funny then that the secretary for state recently described them as "a rich man's toy" And isn't it amazing how far bus fares gone down since deregulation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenia Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Funny then that the secretary for state recently described them as "a rich man's toy" And isn't it amazing how far bus fares gone down since deregulation? The railways are expensive, I didnt say they were perfect, but if they had remained nationalised think what state the rolling stock would be in. We are arguing nationalisation/state support over privatisation. We clearly cannot afford to subsidise transport to the extent it used to be and privatisation works. (not perfectly but better). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 That's not quite what happened, is it? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/6070448.stm Agreed, though that kind of idiocy is not restricted to the police. The advantage of privatising is, of course, that FoI requests can be binned under the cover of commercial confidentiality. When I had a shower put in it cost me less than £500. Personally, I would also shoot anyone turning up at A&E drunk, stoned, with a cold or calling an ambulance because they can't a get taxi. And if you need a crane and Pickford's Heavy Removals to get you to hospital I would leave you to your fate. There is no cure for stupidity and the public sector is not there to pander to the terminally daft. We just can't afford it and why should I be made to pay for it anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolli_pop Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 The railways are expensive, I didnt say they were perfect, but if they had remained nationalised think what state the rolling stock would be in. We are arguing nationalisation/state support over privatisation. In total, the level of franchise support commitments from all sources was £1.8bn in 1998, £1.6bn in 1999, and £1.4bn in 2000, the first three years of full privatisation. This is more than double that given to BR in the 1980s and early 1990s, before the restructuring of the industry prior to privatisation. There is mounting evidence that the fragmentation of the industry and multiplication of commercial interfaces is a key factor in escalating costs. The performance of the privatised train operators, Jean Shaoul (2004) Do you have any up to date figures on the current level of subsidy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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