Phanerothyme Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 There's a whole international (but mostly US) organisation called Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. If anyone wants to know what leading Law Enforcement agents think about prohibition they could do worse than look here http://leap.cc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I already did, the Portuguese experiment article I posted and that you ignored, as you ignore any/everything that refutes your asinine opinions. Portugal? Small population, economy on the rocks. Next economic basket case after Greece. Portugal is nothing like the UK. Not much of an example Now if the experiment worked in France, Sweden, Russia or Switzerland I might just begin to be slightly impressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferno Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The money we are wasting is staggering. A certain proportion of people have a weakness for addiction. I'd rather they got a safe, controlled dose from a regulated source than they NICK MY FLIPPING CAR RADIO! Junkies are stealing £3.5m worth of property a day. Sheffield police said that they estimate that 75% of their property crime is committed by black-market drug users trying to fund their habit. And yet governments refuse to be tough on the cause of this crime: their own prohibition policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferno Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Now if the experiment worked in France, Sweden, Russia or Switzerland I might just begin to be slightly impressed I've already posted this, you ignored it as you ignore anything that refutes your rubbish: The Swiss, for example, in 1997 reported on a three-year experiment in which they had prescribed heroin to 1,146 addicts in 18 locations. They found: "Individual health and social circumstances improved drastically ... The improvements in physical health which occurred during treatment with heroin proved to be stable over the course of one and a half years and in some cases continued to increase (in physical terms, this relates especially to general and nutritional status and injection- related skin diseases) ... In the psychiatric area, depressive states in particular continued to regress, as well as anxiety states and delusional disorders ... The mortality of untreated patients is markedly higher." They also reported dramatic improvements in the social stability of the addicts, including a steep fall in crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferno Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Portugal? Small population, economy on the rocks. Next economic basket case after Greece. Portugal is nothing like the UK. Not much of an example OK, how about, errrrrm, the UK! Heroin Supply Clinic 'Cuts Crime' By Danny Shaw - BBC Home Affairs Correspondent BBC News A scheme in which heroin is given to addicts in supervised clinics has led to big reductions in the use of street drugs and crime, the BBC has learned. More than 100 users took part in the pilot - part funded by the government - in London, Brighton and Darlington. They either injected heroin or received the drug's substitute methadone. Those given heroin responded best and an independent panel which monitored the scheme over six months is advising ministers to set up further trials. About three-quarters of those given heroin were said to have "substantially" reduced their use of street drugs. Research suggests that between half and two-thirds of all crime in the UK is drug-related. The Home Office says on its website that about three-quarters of crack and heroin users claim they commit crime to feed their habits. PILOT SCHEME FINDINGS •Three-quarters reduced use of street heroin •Offences down from 1,731 in 30 days to 547 in six months •Spending on drugs down from £300 to £50 a week Figures for group given heroin •Professor John Strang, who led the project, said the results were "very positive" because the scheme had helped cut crime and avoid "expensive" prison sentences Professor Strang, who is based at the National Addiction Centre, part of King's Health Partners, said the individuals on the programme were among those who had been the hardest to treat. "It's as if each of them is an oil tanker heading for disaster and so the purpose of this trial is to see: 'Can you turn them around? Is it possible to avert disaster?' "And the surprising finding - which is good for the individuals and good for society as well - is that you can," he said. The Randomised Injecting Opioid Treatment Trial (RIOTT) programme - which is funded by a number of agencies, including the Department of Health - began in 2005. It involved 127 chronic heroin addicts for whom conventional types of treatment had failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I've already posted this, you ignored it as you ignore anything that refutes your rubbish: The only rubbish being spouted on here is by people like you who thnik legalizing drugs is okay. By all means treat and rehabilitate the addicts. Why not? Those of us who still believe in self responsibility are already paying enough taxes to fund a hundred other government social programs why not a few millions more in society's lame ducks. That's no reason to make drugs freely available to the rest of the population. I never want to see outlets where cannabis, heroin or whatever other crap that a minority of the population indulge in made openly availabe to the rest of us. That's no solution to anything. What is a solution is for governments to start cracking down big time of drug dealers and their runners. Any plane detected and known to be transporting drugs across the border between Mexico and the US needs to be splashed... not forced down.. but splashed with all those aboard. Similarly with boats, sunk on sight, no survivors picked up. Dealers, pushers and couriers 30 to life in the worst maxixmum security prisons. Anyway, that's yer lot. I've had enough of the thread. Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I've already posted this, you ignored it as you ignore anything that refutes your rubbish: The only rubbish being spouted on here is by people like you who thnik legalizing drugs is okay. By all means treat and rehabilitate the addicts. Why not? Those of us who still believe in self responsibility are already paying enough taxes to fund a hundred other government social programs. Why not a few millions more for society's lame ducks? That's no reason to make drugs freely available to the rest of the population. I never want to see outlets where cannabis, heroin or whatever other crap that a minority of the population indulge in made openly availabe to the rest of us. That's no solution to anything. What is a solution is for governments to start cracking down big time of drug dealers and their runners. Any plane detected and known to be transporting drugs across the border between Mexico and the US needs to be splashed... not forced down.. but splashed with all those aboard. Similarly with boats, sunk on sight, no survivors picked up. Dealers, pushers and couriers 30 to life in the worst maxixmum security prisons. Anyway, that's yer lot. I've had enough of the thread. Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well, let's finish off with some words from Retired Chief Constable Francis Wilkinson via http://leap.cc "It is the USA that inhibits the UN from changing its drugs conventions, which are the real barrier to global reform of the law" Francis Wilkinson held nine different police ranks in England during his 30-year career, ending as chief constable of Gwent with 1,700 personnel beneath him. He joined law enforcement because he wanted to make an active, real difference in the world, but at every level of policing he gained an increasing understanding of the failure of the "War on Drugs" mentality he was charged by statute to enforce. Eventually he came to see that legalization is the most viable option for dealing with drugs - even the ones he feels cause real damage, such as heroin. "The more I understood about the social harm of prohibition," he relates, "the more I favored regulated supply." Upon retiring from the police force, Francis felt freer to speak his mind on the "War on Drugs." In 2001 he appeared on BBC One Wales's Week In, Week Out, where he advocated legalizing heroin on the Swiss model, noting that not only would this make things safer for addicts and reduce street crime, but that finally it would actually reduce use of the drug itself. His pamphlet, Heroin: the failure of prohibition and what to do now, sets out and justifies these practical proposals. Francis points to the criminalization of cannabis as the height of prohibitionist absurdity and hypocrisy. "Alcohol is much more serious, much more socially damaging, much more powerful than cannabis," which he notes is "very safe." He has gone as far as to submit a memorandum pushing for cannabis legalization to the Select Committee on Home Affairs, to whom he gave evidence. The subsequent Parliamentary Report took on many of his proposals, and the Liberal Democrat Party has adopted them as party policy. He has published a pamphlet, The Leaf and the Law, with a regime for change in cannabis law. He has been an active member of Transform, a drug-legalization campaigning organization. He decided to add speaking for LEAP to his activities because "the US is a very important place to have a constant debate about legalization from the perspective of people who know what they are talking about." He wants to see the "War on Drugs" ended in his country and everywhere because "it increases mass crime, it corrupts states, and it causes unnecessary deaths of both users and in those the business of protecting the people." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The only rubbish being spouted on here is by people like you who thnik legalizing drugs is okay. Yet you're the one getting hysterical and emotive, while avoiding everything that clearly shows there's more to it than your simple black and white view. You ask for evidence, you get it, ignore it, and then it's onward with more of the same. You pose questions, you get answers, ignore them, and carry on! Why would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo77 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Were you a child of the 40s and 50s? I was. I spent my early years in Parson Cross. People smoked a lot, even kids sneaked a drag or two and people drank, some getting ***** faced on Saturday nights but no one knew what drugs were except for headaches and rheumatism relief. It was a completely different world. I keep saying that drug use for pleasure and widespread addiction came about at the time that such groups as the Stones and the Beatles appeared on the scene. Hitler did seduce a generation, even a whole nation BTW. Until the war turned against him he was the idol of an overwhelming majority of Germans. How else could a single man mobilize a whole nation and create an army who conquered most of Europe and who were quite willing to die for him. The only people in terror from Hitler were the Jews and others who did not fit in with his new order When was Ray Charles on the scene? I'm sure that it was the 50's. He was a heroin user as were a lot of the early blues musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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