BarraGergus Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 when your ready tribal, look forward to seeing you:thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANVIL Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by want2learn steve marsden? whats his competition record like? how longs he been training? I have no idea what Steve's competition record is like...before i began training at RGJJN i enquired about Gracie Barra and i didn't ask Jon Goldson about his competiton record either. would you ask Cus D'Amato what his competition record was? what about Brendon Ingle? it's just not a factor (for me). i'm more interested in attending a club that has a warm and friendly atmosphere and where the instructors are able to relay information in an accessible method. i train for fitness, self-defence and fun - competiton isn't a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANVIL Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Originally posted by CastleBBA Come on everyone, its not right to talk about nilson like that. He was a great guy and an excellent martial artist. People should have more respect for him. Talk to Ross P about it Ross is the well-known MMA fighter who i referred to earlier - i overheard him say that he'd spent as much time as he could training with Nilson, and i don' think he would have done so if he didn't think he could learn anything from him or if he doubted his credentials. maybe i should have been a little more explicit in saying this - i certainly wouldn't want to disrespect Nislon, simply because he seemed like a really nice guy. sorry for any misunderstanding on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2learn Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I like to know guys competition records, competing is an integral part of bjj and instructors that dont compete, well, i think they should.how can you teach something and say it works without ever trying it? I dont really care about the win/loss ratio of a guys record I just respect them more for putting it on the line. would you rather learn from the best or someone who goes drinking with you after class? just my 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANVIL Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Originally posted by want2learn I like to know guys competition records, competing is an integral part of bjj and instructors that dont compete, well, i think they should.how can you teach something and say it works without ever trying it? I dont really care about the win/loss ratio of a guys record I just respect them more for putting it on the line. would you rather learn from the best or someone who goes drinking with you after class? just my 2 cents worth. what if a guy puts his record on the line week in, week out, with a 100% win record, but can't teach - as a student that's no good whatsover to me. how much did the likes of d'amato and Ingle prove what they knew works? , Their students sure as hell have. a kimura works whether a particular instructor has demonstrated it in a competition or not. i don't need to see that, i've seen other people make it work, and i've seen instructors make it work competition or not. i've also been taught it, and i can make it work. I'd rather learn from someone who can teach, whether they go drinking after class or not. and if you don't really care about a win/loss ratio, but you do care if someone puts their record on the line, wouldn't your initial question have been better phrased 'does/has steve competed?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truebjj Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Want2learn and Anvil, Kind of agree with you both hear, I do belive that you should as an instructor compete not only to test yourself but to find out what your own weaknesses are but to find out whats new out there as well. New moves are developed every day and you can learn a lot at these things. Anvil your Ingle argument suggest Brendon Ingle is just a trainer of excellent boxers(I may have misunderstood!) I think you'll find that he Boxer from 1965 to 1972 having 30 fights then became a trainer. And lets not forget, would we have been doing bjj if Royce didnt compete (and win) in the UFC etc? If you are not into the sport to compete and I know that some aren't it a very good idea to attend comps to learn how the sport is progressing. Anvil do you compete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANVIL Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Sorry, my argument pertaining to Brendan is that he is a better coach than he ever was a boxer - you can be a world-class coach without being a world class competitor. i've nver had the opportunity to compete in BJJ (i have in judo). i may in the future, but my priamry objective is self-dfence to be honest. competition might be cool later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truebjj Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I get ya! If you do it for self defence I would defiantly suggest keeping up your competing. I feel it can also give you the edge when it comes to fight or flight. When I train on the mat, I know the guy in front of me not only is my student but my mate too and doesn't really want to hurt me in a bad way (Guys??) so the reactions are different. But in completions you have the butterflies an all but you're use to them and have better control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarraGergus Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 true.... i got my ass kicked in a sub wrestling comp in about 30sec to a guillotine... i thought i knew how to get out... but someone is always evolving the sport... thats why the level of fighters has gone up so much in the last few years. to be honest you can always get a kimura on someone in training.... theres a big difference between knowing the perfect technique, and applying the perfect techniquie. its harder when you don't know the person you fight... lets face it a black belt from Royces UFC days, would be a shadow of the equivolent black belt now, simply because of the evolution of the sport.... even if you never win a fight in a comp, you should learn something more usefull than, if you went undefeated for 10 years. TrueBjj you know i wont mess you up to bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANVIL Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I've trained at a couple of clubs where the instructors competed regularly (not BJJ), but the clubs were both (in my opinion) poorly run. i didn't learn a great deal from them as a result of that, even though the instructors put their neck's on the line and could personally demonstrate the successful application of techniques in competition. the other problem (for me) with both of those clubs was that they were heavily competition orientated. this meant that joe (or joanne) bloggs would come to their first session, looking for something to keep them fit, have a bit of fun and maybe learn a few reasonable self-defence techniques, only to be totally overwhelmed by the focus on competition, and then never come again. i'm not anti-competition, and i agree with you truebjj about fight or flight. i think it's also beneficial to a club if people do compete because the people who don't can still develop their game by learning from the experiences of those who do. i'm simply stating that for me, it's not the be all and end all, and what an instructors competiton record is doesn't interest me. in my opinion two of the best features of BJJ are the ability to spar against a fully resistant opponent and the system for awarding belts. the sparring means that you can test if things work - ok, it might not replicate the street, what can? NHB competitions can't (nothing can), but a least your partner is resisting, so you should get an idea if you can make something work or not. as for the belt system, i think the very fact that belts are awarded by blackbelts and based on a person's performance on the mat is testament enough to anyone's ability. blue belts aren't handed out willy nilly in BJJ (again, a great feature of the game) - you have to prove yourself able against other people, competition or not. when i referred to a kimura, it was just an example of a technique. it could be any technique. what i'm saying is that the validity of a technique does not depend alone on the successful application of said technique by my (or your) instructor in a competitive environment. a technique works for me because i can make it work, not because my instructor can. yama****a, the great judo player, dominated his weight class in judo for many years but he relied on just a handful of techniques. now let's assume the guy can teach - would i say to him, yes you can teach me, but only the 4 or 5 techniques that you personally proved could work? hell no, if the guy can teach, he can teach me the techniques that other people have made work too! yes the game develops, and competing personally is a good way of keeping up with those developments, but it's not the only way - you can keep up with developments by sparring with other people who compete, by attending seminars, by utilising the latest training aids, etc. from my point of view, training with self-defence in mind, i'm just going to assume (rightly or wrongly) that some guy who's going to mug me is still watching UFC 1 and has no idea about the de la riva guard or saulo ribeiro's latest tapes! like i said, i'm not anti-competiton, it's integral and essential to the development of BJJ, but there are other factors when it comes to teaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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