mj.scuba Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sounds like a perfectly reasonable idea to me. What, motor boating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 What, motor boating? I still don't actually know what that means. (Apart from using a boat with an engine.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Flirting is mutual, quite simply, where there is a reciprocal sexual attraction. Zero tolerance should be all inclusive, indeed. However, the fact remains that women are subjected to more harassment and unwanted attention than men. Violence against women is a serious problem. I have had some unsavoury experiences of being harassed, jeered at, stalked, followed etc, as have most women. Can most men say the same? You haven't answered my question, would women behaving in an unwanted manner be dealt with the same as men? HOW would we ascertain the difference between flirting and harrasment? I've been 'flirted' with in a sexual way by women when I don't want it, flirting isn't always mutual. Your reply to me about the difference in numbers is irrelevant to my questions, its a little like talking about child abuse and making the point that more black children are abused than white ones, it somewhat avoids the core issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_W Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Flirting is mutual, quite simply, where there is a reciprocal sexual attraction. Zero tolerance should be all inclusive, indeed. However, the fact remains that women are subjected to more harassment and unwanted attention than men. Violence against women is a serious problem. I have had some unsavoury experiences of being harassed, jeered at, stalked, followed etc, as have most women. Can most men say the same? Flirting is mutual but someone has to start it, that in itself could be percieved as unwanted attention surely, and how can you speak for most women Violence against women is of course a serious problem but not really the subject matter on this thread, sexist remarks and wolf whistles don't count as acts of violence ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You haven't answered my question, would women behaving in an unwanted manner be dealt with the same as men? HOW would we ascertain the difference between flirting and harrasment? I've been 'flirted' with in a sexual way by women when I don't want it, flirting isn't always mutual. Your reply to me about the difference in numbers is irrelevant to my questions, its a little like talking about child abuse and making the point that more black children are abused than white ones, it somewhat avoids the core issue. I said it should be all inclusive which did, in my view, answer your question. However, as I also said, male violence against women is far more endemic that female on male violence, sexual and otherwise. There are power dynamics at play here, whether you like it or not. Maybe you should take it up with your MP? I also did address your other point, if women are giving you unwanted attention then that is not flirting, in my view. They are being flirtatious but if you do not respond in kind, then it is harassment. So, what is the core issue in your view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollwithit Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Any lads on here ever seen a group of pssd up women behaving badly with the wolfe whistles and lude remarks. Was any man bothered by it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Flirting is mutual but someone has to start it, that in itself could be percieved as unwanted attention surely, and how can you speak for most women Violence against women is of course a serious problem but not really the subject matter on this thread, sexist remarks and wolf whistles don't count as acts of violence ! It has everything to do with violence against women as the feeling of fear and intimidation is born out of a fear of sexual violence. Yes, someone does have to initiate it, however of the other party does not reciprocate then they should back off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubydazzler Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I was glassed in a pub and punched repeatedly in the face for stopping a man from 'moterboating' me. Its about time women AND men should be able to report something without having to feel like they are the ones to have reacted for getting the police involved.You were glassed and punched by (a man?) trying to sexually assault you? That's really bad. Where did it happen? Didn't anyone help you? What happened to your attacker, was he arrested and charged? And have you fully recovered from the assault? Catcalling and whistling after people in the street is all a bit last century, really. It shouldn't be necessary to make it a criminal offence, you'd think people would just know better these days. Although, judging by the sexist comments we always see on this type of thread, it'll have to be enshrined in law, before some people will accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I said it should be all inclusive which did, in my view, answer your question. However, as I also said, male violence against women is far more endemic that female on male violence, sexual and otherwise. There are power dynamics at play here, whether you like it or not. Maybe you should take it up with your MP? I also did address your other point, if women are giving you unwanted attention then that is not flirting, in my view. They are being flirtatious but if you do not respond in kind, then it is harassment. So, what is the core issue in your view? The core issue is within the title of the thread, sexist remarks and wolf whistles, if you want to start a thread specifically about violence towards women and how unfairly women are treated in society then go ahead, and I will agree with you 100%. My last post was made on my phone, and I can't really see what I'm doing on there so it may have come across wrong, for which I apologise. My questions were 1) Will the criminal offences go both ways, will women be punished for the same behaviour? and 2) How will we differenciate between natural flirting and 'sexist' remarks (on both sides of the coin)? Regarding question 1, despite your saying 'I said it should be all inclusive' I wonder, and only you will know the honest answer to this, if you would jump to the defence of a man who had been treated offensively (let's say wolf whistled at) as quickley as you would a woman? Are you really interested in equality? Regarding question two, flirting isn't as black and white as you paint it, as Michael_W correctly stated someone has to start it, if a woman starts it and it is unwanted does that make it any better than if a man does? And where, most importantly, which has been left unanswered by you, do we draw the line? At which point is it that we place 'criminality' on a remark and make it sexist? Is it down to the discretion of those who are offended by it?, or do we have a solid line that should not be crossed? If it is down to the individual being offended how can wolf whistles be made criminal, as some recipiants enjoy being wolf whistled at (men and women) or do we over ride that individual acceptance if we who are witnessing it are offended by it even if they are not? As I have said I am in favour of sexist remarks and unwanted sexual attention becoming illegal, but the question remains - and it is not a case of one sex over the other - and neither should it be - how do we differentiate what is flirting, what is wanted and what is acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schong2111 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You were glassed and punched by (a man?) trying to sexually assault you? That's really bad. Where did it happen? Didn't anyone help you? What happened to your attacker, was he arrested and charged? And have you fully recovered from the assault? Catcalling and whistling after people in the street is all a bit last century, really. It shouldn't be necessary to make it a criminal offence, you'd think people would just know better these days. Although, judging by the sexist comments we always see on this type of thread, it'll have to be enshrined in law, before some people will accept it. It was at the dreaded Cutler near John Lewis, we'd been in there about an hour when the majority of my friends went out for a cig, I went to the toilet, on my own, and on they way back i was stopped by this bloke, I wondered what he was going to say so i looked at him and he immediately stuck his head into my cleavage! I took a step back, grabbed his chin, pushed his face away from me and told him where to go, his mates started laughing, he moved to the side and as i went to walk past him he smashed his full pint in the side of my face and punched me twice, luckily there was a table behind me and I caught my balance. One or two of friends saw me almost fall and this guy go for me again, then the bouncers and bar staff intervened and threw him out! They then came back and threw me out too, it was only at this point my other half saw what was going on as I was now outside covered in beer, bleeding with a swollen face. I was sat on the pavement outside, and my friend managed to collar a police officer and give a description of the lad, the bouncers didn't want to know! They arrested him, and it went to court he was fined and charged with aggravated assault but NOT sexual harassment, he got so many hours community service. He was known as a football hooligan and had been charged with other violent offences before. The worst part was that this all happened on my 19th Birthday when I was 5 months pregnant! I'd been out for a meal with my OH and we had only gone to the cutler because all my close friends were there and they wanted to see me and say hi. The Police immediately assumed I'd been drinking and at court I was told i provoked the attack by having my cleavage on show. But I was expecting to be blamed for my attack, doing Womens studies and Law had me prepared! I haven't suffered that much from it, I'm a very confident person and it would take a lot to break me LOL, but saying that I didn't go out much really until the end of my pregnancy, for fear of what might happen to my baby. I had nightmares for a few weeks after, dreaming that he'd kicked me in the stomach and I'd lose my baby & but I imagine if I'd have hit the floor he'd have done that. I apologise for the long winded answer! But you did ask, so I gave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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