iansheff Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Well Daves plan is working well, setting people against each other. I am sure most people who cannot work would rather be fit and at work making a decent wage to live on rather than being on benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Been to atol 2day had 2 wait 2hours before being seen what a load of rot not interested in my illness just asked if i could dress myself and if i could bend and touch my knees got to wait now if im fit for work im 64 now so see what happens xx because it is a functional assessment of activities of daily living and work related taks, why is this so hard for people to get a grip of ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddybare Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 because it is a functional assessment of activities of daily living and work related taks, why is this so hard for people to get a grip of ? Because ATOS is the devil and for some beating their assessment is a goal to top up their fortnightly payment. Our next door neighbour has been mentally unfit for work since 2007. She has a 18 month old and just returned from a month's honeymoon in Mexico. It's people like that that should be failing the assessment not cancer patients and paraplegics who obviously deserve sickness benefits. So far, on this thread, we've learnt that 1 in 3 people are failing the assessment and only 1 in 3 of those are losing at appeal. Doesn't that mean that 8/9 people who were claiming IB before ATOS started up are still getting it? Seems like a lot. The only real loser in the whole affair is us, the taxpayer. As I said earlier it would be much easier and cheaper to keep paying the deserving and undeserving alike and save a fortune on ATOS fees/appeal costs. Speak your opinion on this thread it seems and personal insults will ensue. Luckily I have a thick skin. I wonder if that would score me any ATOS points. A fool: yes. Unfortunate: no way Failing to laugh at Ricky gervais is the saddest thing I've heard all week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERDREAM Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Because ATOS is the devil and for some beating their assessment is a goal to top up their fortnightly payment. Our next door neighbour has been mentally unfit for work since 2007. She has a 18 month old and just returned from a month's honeymoon in Mexico. It's people like that that should be failing the assessment not cancer patients and paraplegics who obviously deserve sickness benefits. So far, on this thread, we've learnt that 1 in 3 people are failing the assessment and only 1 in 3 of those are losing at appeal. Doesn't that mean that 8/9 people who were claiming IB before ATOS started up are still getting it? Seems like a lot. The only real loser in the whole affair is us, the taxpayer. As I said earlier it would be much easier and cheaper to keep paying the deserving and undeserving alike and save a fortune on ATOS fees/appeal costs. Speak your opinion on this thread it seems and personal insults will ensue. Luckily I have a thick skin. I wonder if that would score me any ATOS points. A fool: yes. Unfortunate: no way Failing to laugh at Ricky gervais is the saddest thing I've heard all week. Dont get disheartened. Theres a lot of us who dont agree with the benefits system full stop. Just like theres a lot of benefit claimants that are ripping off every taxpayer in the country. It makes me feel that going to work is just for the stupid. Roll on the £26 grand cap, as thats a start. Let the genuinely sick stay on their benefits and lets the scrounging whingers get kicked into work. Coz if they dont, they dont eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrneil Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 because it is a functional assessment of activities of daily living and work related taks, why is this so hard for people to get a grip of ? But it's not is it? A snapshot of how you function in a 20 minute period in no way gives you a functional assessment of activities for daily living and work related tasks - it completely omits elements such as pain, fatigue and pretty much all of the mental health variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brin56 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Sorry if this seems a bit off topic but hope you will take it on as part of the thread; As I see it libertarian capitalism cannot tolerate the idea of welfare in any shape or form; everybody must be able to work in some shape or form (Ultuimately the only way in which you are unable to work is if you are dead). It cannot stand the idea of welfare (people receiving an income but are unable to work) everybody must be available to work. The way I see it that the solution is an alturistic socialist society which will care for those who cannot care for themselves. But when you turn over this system to those whose only goal is 'profit' then it cannot tolerate those who cannot work and determines those as scroungers - and again with no exceptions. The whole modus operandi of ATOS is to process people, generating a profit from this service. It receives Government payment , garnered from taxpayers with the directive that everybody is processed as a scrounger and underserving of welfare and there are no exceptions. Atos has a contract to carry out compulsory work programmes, meaning they will get paid for getting disabled people back into work. This is an incentive for them to fail people's claims: a clear conflict of interest. The most damning fact about the system is that Atos will get £500m over 7 years for running the Work Capability Assessments, while fraud in ESA over this period could be around £250m: the tests claimed to stop fraud cost twice as much as the fraud. Thus the only way Atos can offer value for money is if they cut £250m off the ESA case load – so there is indeed an implicit target. Atos, a French-owned healthcare and IT company, is being paid more than £100 million a year to carry out the controversial work capability assessments for the government. By the way:... As Worldwide IT Partner of the International Olympic Committee for the 2012London Olympic and Paralympic Atos is responsible for leading the consortium of IT partners to design, build and operate the massive, mission critical IT infrastructure and solutions that will support the London 2012 Games. "Atos will play a leading role in delivering the technology for London 2012. They have extensive experience from previous Games and will be an integral part of the team between now and 2012. We’re thrilled to be working with them.” Sebastian Coe Chair of the London 2012 Organising Committee Would you believe the irony of it all - Paralymbics...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 But it's not is it? A snapshot of how you function in a 20 minute period in no way gives you a functional assessment of activities for daily living and work related tasks - it completely omits elements such as pain, fatigue and pretty much all of the mental health variables. That's why the assessment is designed to ask you about all of those things, and how they affect you for most days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrneil Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 That's why the assessment is designed to ask you about all of those things, and how they affect you for most days. Once again they don't - fatigue and pain effects aren't mentioned in either the form or the test. Psychology makes up a tiny percentage of the form and is lightly brushed upon in the test. The vast majority is simple physical tests which you have largely proved you can do simply by turning up to the test centre with anything more complex or fluctuation being largely ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tradescanthia Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Once again they don't - fatigue and pain effects aren't mentioned in either the form or the test. Psychology makes up a tiny percentage of the form and is lightly brushed upon in the test. The vast majority is simple physical tests which you have largely proved you can do simply by turning up to the test centre with anything more complex or fluctuation being largely ignored. Its pointless trying to get thru' to HeadingNorth, he has a problem. Eventually you will be rude to him and he will press the report button. You obviously understand the test, he dosn't. [ But he will argue on and on and on...........] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tradescanthia Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Sorry if this seems a bit off topic but hope you will take it on as part of the thread; As I see it libertarian capitalism cannot tolerate the idea of welfare in any shape or form; everybody must be able to work in some shape or form (Ultuimately the only way in which you are unable to work is if you are dead). It cannot stand the idea of welfare (people receiving an income but are unable to work) everybody must be available to work. The way I see it that the solution is an alturistic socialist society which will care for those who cannot care for themselves. But when you turn over this system to those whose only goal is 'profit' then it cannot tolerate those who cannot work and determines those as scroungers - and again with no exceptions. The whole modus operandi of ATOS is to process people, generating a profit from this service. It receives Government payment , garnered from taxpayers with the directive that everybody is processed as a scrounger and underserving of welfare and there are no exceptions. Atos has a contract to carry out compulsory work programmes, meaning they will get paid for getting disabled people back into work. This is an incentive for them to fail people's claims: a clear conflict of interest. The most damning fact about the system is that Atos will get £500m over 7 years for running the Work Capability Assessments, while fraud in ESA over this period could be around £250m: the tests claimed to stop fraud cost twice as much as the fraud. Thus the only way Atos can offer value for money is if they cut £250m off the ESA case load – so there is indeed an implicit target. Atos, a French-owned healthcare and IT company, is being paid more than £100 million a year to carry out the controversial work capability assessments for the government. By the way:... As Worldwide IT Partner of the International Olympic Committee for the 2012London Olympic and Paralympic Atos is responsible for leading the consortium of IT partners to design, build and operate the massive, mission critical IT infrastructure and solutions that will support the London 2012 Games. "Atos will play a leading role in delivering the technology for London 2012. They have extensive experience from previous Games and will be an integral part of the team between now and 2012. We’re thrilled to be working with them.” Sebastian Coe Chair of the London 2012 Organising Committee Would you believe the irony of it all - Paralymbics...! Brilliant post !!! :hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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