Anyone been seen by atos and kept incapacity benefit/esa?

[HeadingNorth]

heading north

could you please answer the question about soldiers being denied DLA even if they have lost a limb, is this fair

 

This thread is not discussing DLA, it's about incapacity benefit and its replacement, Employment and Support Allowance. If you wish to discuss DLA cases, you'd better start another thread.

[sheff1johnny]

On a seperate note it makes me wonder when people attend an atos medical centre, they are not made to write in a book, for fire regulations. Also there is no disabled parking at the medical centre, and the place is in between two city centre pubs. Not a good impression, at least the disabled people can drown their sorrows, after having a healthcare so called professional refusing them their benefits.

IDS, is a condition, that affects every disabled person. No-one stands up for the disabled anymore, and IDS gets more and more powerful. IDS can only be treated with a dose of realism. The tories did so badly in the council elections, because people can not stand being told what to do.

End IDS now, before it spreads to all of society. It needs to be stopped. There would have been easier ways to save money. Take £10 a week off every disabled person, and get rid of atos. and IDS. and the country will be saved.

[Tradescanthia]

just found out this goverment is now going after DLA here we go again round and round the mulberry bush methinks Iain Duncan Smith is the mad hatter

do not mind this as long as they stop using the LIMA system which as i have said before is designed for you to fail

he does come out with some stuff saying losing a limb should not entitle you to this benefit

don't think anyones limbs can grow back again

oh one other peice our soldiers who are injured in combat will also have this took off them according to him

please let me know if you think this is fair

so we are all going to be reassessed what is the point for such me when what i have got will never get better only worse rather a waste of taxpayers money

God help us all

 

Its just what we would expect from the Torys. Just pick on the weakest and most vulnerable members of our society. Typical Tory spin. Divide and rule....I'm alright Jack. Better way to save money would be to have LESS MP's. Bloody Lib Dems are just as bad. Who is it who said " Society is judged by the way it looks after its old, its young and its disadvantaged" ??????

Our current society is a disgrace. Politicians who are not fit for purpose ??? I.E. Thick, ignorant, pompous Tory 'posh boys'.................and the disabled can go to hell because the rest of the country think "I'm alright Jack". It can happen to anyone at any time.......................just a thought......

[juniee]

but by the same prognosis they will also lose their incapacity benefit so am not discussing a separate issue

oh by the way is not raining outside

[HeadingNorth]

but by the same prognosis they will also lose their incapacity benefit

 

On what grounds do you make that assumption? There are plenty of people who draw DLA but not incapacity benefit, and still more people who draw incapacity but not DLA. There is no good reason for arguing that giving up one automatically means losing the other as well.

[Brin56]

To continue with this long, important, I believe thread I should like share my analysis partly of the ideaology behind this reform.

 

When an ATOS doctor sees a claimant that claimant is NOT his/ her patient, and there is NOT therefore an explicit, or even implicit, duty of care.

 

The ATOS doctor's employer in this case is ATOS, who then says that;

 

"the first duty of the assessor is to supply, with the consent of the claimant, honest advice to the DWP on the most likely correct numerical score for the statutory descriptors in the test."

 

The assessor's duty here is wrong because in ATOS The doctor's first duty is not to the DWP, but to ATOS who are, as we keep on being told, is a private

company with all the legal privileges and duties that involves. ATOS are the assessor's employers; ATOS has a contractual obligation to the DWP, but the

"assessor" does not. The assessor's duty must be to provide ATOS with

what ATOS wants, and the assessor has agreed to supply.

 

The exact nature of ATOS' demands on its "health care

professional" (HCP) is unknown, since the content of their contracts -

like so much else of ATOS' business - is covered by heavy veils of

secrecy.

 

ATOS may not require an assessor to submit evidence which is the

assessor knows, or believes, to be completely false. This, however, is

not a very substantial safeguard of the truthfulness of the reports.

 

Questions asked by the LiMA program ~(software used to run the capability tests) are used to generate from one reply a whole chain of inferences. Such inferences may then be churned out by the final report which a rushed Health Care Professional (HCP) may just glance at and then sign.

 

What options, after all, do they have? They are not required to take responsibility for the accuracy of the inference chain, and are discouraged from entering any information which does not fit the parameters of the LiMA program.

 

There is a further point. A HCP who is "assessing a claimant" has no

direct duty of care. Suppose then that the HCP has been told, "You are to

take a sceptical approach to all statements made by the claimant, or their

GP." A short period working there and a couple of reprimands for taking

too long, and being "insufficiently rigorous" in their assessments, and

the HCP will get the point.

 

As the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) pointed out in their report "Not Working", another common problem , is that conditions frequently appear to be

downplayed.

 

If a client's condition has been described by their GP as 'moderate' - based on tests, MRI scans, reports from consultants or other appropriate diagnostic tools - the HCP is very likely to describe it -based on a half hour interview - as 'mild'.

 

If it is described by the GP as 'severe' it will be 'moderate' in the Work Capability Assessment (WCA) report.

 

There are numerous other examples of bad experiences from the CAB,

from Citizens' Advice Scotland, from other reports and from anecdotal

evidence on the web. Answers are twisted, misunderstood or abbreviated,

so that "no", with a lot of help," becomes, "Yes".

 

The handbook for assessors says that claimants frequently underestimate things like distance. Someone who "goes round a supermarket" can therefore be assumed to be able to walk 800m.

 

That distance is then entered into the report and the claimant's statement that they can walk 20m is ignored, as is their explanation that the

"supermarket" is the corner convenience store.

 

These are instructions from the commercial firm employing the doctor

or other HCP. They have to shape what they hear to fit the demands of the

computer program, and the wishes of the boss. That the DWP is happy with

the service being provided by Atos is evident from the renewals and

extensions to their contract.

 

There are doubtless doctors out there providing the sort of assessment which the DWP describes, That many of the Atos HCPs provide nothing like that sort of service is the conclusion of several reports and the experience of thousands of claimants

[Brin56]

For those of you interested in seeing what this 'Lima' prgramme is about -

here are a few snapshots of the screen from one of the assessor's who may have jumped the ship (in disgust) and released this to the public

 

 

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/Lima_Nov_2005.pdf

[juniee]

thanks Brin56

for that information. this is what I was trying to get at.

If the LIMA programme is used for either benefit you will fail

I will repeat myself the case about the man not experiencing severe pain on walking any longer was for incapacity benefit.

Of course he felt no pain on walking as both of his legs had been amputated.

The HCP has the first duty to their employer as does any employee anywhere

this is also one of the reasons why there is a high turnover of staff as some people do have a moral conscience

I agree with the statement being fitted to the computer programme

what I said was that it took me 15 to 30 minutes to walk to the shop

on the form this is what was stated

what was omitted was the fact the shop is for a fit person a three to five minute walk away

[chocki]

Glad to say I have just won my appeal!

 

I'm not jumping around with happiness though cos I knew it was the wrong decision. Not as daunting as I thought it was going to be but I was very nervous. Just went in and told the truth - justice is done. Interview was about 15-20 minutes then had to wait outside for about 5 minutes or so for their decision.

 

Glad it's all over

[Tradescanthia]

Thanks Brin56 for a very informative and well put post. I think we all underststand the purpose of ATOS exept one poster who argues just for the sake of it. I now know that IF I personally have to face ATOS again i shall refer to this thread and this post in particular. Forewarned is fore armed.

Thanks Brin56