IAchilleasI Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 hopefully not at the end of the process there needs to be more intrusive regulation and also a change of attitude amongst consumers which would give the system more stability Regulation sounds a bit like patchwork to me, but a value shift is definitely required. On another subject, here's an interesting article I managed to dug up from some of my earlier research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I really respect Peter Joseph/ Jaque Fresco's visionary ideas of a socialist resource-based economy. Bingo!! So this has got nothing to do with monetary systems at all. It's just more Socialist loonacy. I might have known. So now we know the alternative to a monetary system is robots doing all the work while the people sit around in Jacuzzis drinking champagne. Now I really have heard it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 And drag it's laptop with it? "Currently the robots are tethered to laptops" diagnose the problem in my header tank and fix it in ten minutes. Can it use a screwdriver or a wrench in a confined space? Don't waste your time on these loons. They don't even know what a screwdriver is. They've read in an academic paper that robots will be able to take over the world freeing up the monetarist enslaved proles to pursue higher aims. Don't bring them down with minor details like getting a robot into your loft. I already tried that with electrical wiring but they dodged it. Perhaps once they've got the system up and running on their planet they'll tell us how they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 “To all whom it may concern ! Sluggishly circulating money has provoked an unprecedented trade depression and plunged millions into utter misery. Economically considered, the destruction of the world has started. - It is time, through determined and intelligent action, to endeavour to arrest the downward plunge of the trade machine and thereby to save mankind from fratricidal wars, chaos, and dissolution. Human beings live by exchanging their services. Sluggish circulation has largely stopped this exchange and thrown millions of willing workers out of employment. - We must therefore revive this exchange of services and by its means bring the unemployed back to the ranks of the producers. Such is the object of the labour certificate issued by the market town of Wörgl : it softens sufferings dread; it offers work and bread.” Was the inscription upon the labour certificates issued in the form of a complementary demurrage currency in the town of Worgl. Full employment and prosperity resulted, before the currency was banned. The Central Bank The Central Bank panicked, and decided to assert its monopoly rights by banning complimentary currencies. The case was brought in front of the Austrian Supreme Court, which upheld the Central Banks monopoly over issuing currency. It then became a criminal offence to issue “emergency currency”. Worgl quickly returned to 30% unemployment. Social unrest spread rapidly across Austria. In 1938 Hitler annexed Austria and many people welcomed Hitler as their economic and political savior. Germany was headed towards WWII and with the aftermath of the war much of what happened in pre war Germany just like what happened during the war was suppressed by the world. Germany was being rebuilt in the West’s image. The Worgl experiment was relegated to history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Don't waste your time on these loons. They don't even know what a screwdriver is. They've read in an academic paper that robots will be able to take over the world freeing up the monetarist enslaved proles to pursue higher aims. Don't bring them down with minor details like getting a robot into your loft. I already tried that with electrical wiring but they dodged it. Perhaps once they've got the system up and running on their planet they'll tell us how they did it. I'm a trained tradesperson amongst other things lol, I specialised in electrics! You see how you never get anything right Jim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Bingo!! So this has got nothing to do with monetary systems at all. It's just more Socialist loonacy. I might have known. So now we know the alternative to a monetary system is robots doing all the work while the people sit around in Jacuzzis drinking champagne. Now I really have heard it all. Socialism is an economic system you numbskull! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'm a trained tradesperson amongst other things lol, I specialised in electrics! You see how you never get anything right Jim? You can't seriously think a robot is going to build another robot that can do all the jobs you can do as a skilled tradesperson while you rake in the cash and sit in your jacuzzi drinking champagne. Socialism may be an economic system but it doesn't work. It never has and it never will. It's a fantasy, an unachievable utopia that has been tried and tried and all but abandoned. It's all very well dreaming of a world where robots build robots to do everything but there will always be people needed to create all sorts of things and provide services. If you crash your robot built car on the motorway in your world a robot police droid will come to your aid and a robot paramedic droid will take you to hospital where a robot surgeon droid will operate on you. But, back in the real world there will always be a need for people. All that will happen is the people who are working will keep all the wealth which is pretty much what happens now Socialism does not work because people are NOT equal. End of story. Why would the working people give it away to all those loons lazing around in their jacuzzis drinking champagne and "developing" themselves. Today we call it the tax system where those who do work are legally robbed and have to give it to those who don't work. I agree that aspect of monetarism is inherently faulty because it creates an irresponsible underclass. That's divisive which is the opposite of socialism. I don't know how old you are but I'm guessing if you are under 30 you have years of frustrating disappointment ahead of you. We had all this technology will break us free nonsense years ago and all it has done is divide between the haves and have nots. Take some good advice and make sure you are one of the haves. There are lots of people on this forum who think life owes them a living. They are the bitter, disappointed ones because they aren't sitting in jacuzzis drinking champagne while someone else does all the heavy lifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Modern psychological and sociological study has found that human actions are subject to environmental input. The behaviours that are rewarded by the culture also tend to be perpetuated. For example, it is commonly considered a "moral" issue when a corporation deliberately pollutes the environment to save money. Many claim that the corporation's people must be "corrupt" for allowing this. The flaw, however, exists in the assumption. If we exist in a system that allows us to save money and hence survive by being exploitative, abusive or indifferent to the world around us, why should we not expect it to be the norm, especially in a system based on competition where gaining advantage is the goal? Corruption is being reinforced. The solution cannot be more laws to try and stop this behavior but to create a social system that doesn't reward such behavior at all. Laws are patchwork that act against the internal logic of the system. Greed, corruption and self-interest do not exist because 'the system' allows it but because humans have evolved in an unfair, survival of the fittest world. Humans need to inherently change before the system can. I would like some answers to these questions. Do you consider the monetary system to be an effective incentive for people to contribute towards improving mankind's living standards? Do you consider the monetary system to be the apex of our socioeconomic evolution? Do you see us using money until the end of time? No I don't. But that doesn't mean we are on the threshold of a new order either. Humans are simple too 'base' at this moment in time... maybe in a millennia or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAchilleasI Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 You can't seriously think a robot is going to build another robot that can do all the jobs you can do as a skilled tradesperson while you rake in the cash and sit in your jacuzzi drinking champagne. Socialism may be an economic system but it doesn't work. It never has and it never will. It's a fantasy, an unachievable utopia that has been tried and tried and all but abandoned. It's all very well dreaming of a world where robots build robots to do everything but there will always be people needed to create all sorts of things and provide services. If you crash your robot built car on the motorway in your world a robot police droid will come to your aid and a robot paramedic droid will take you to hospital where a robot surgeon droid will operate on you. But, back in the real world there will always be a need for people. All that will happen is the people who are working will keep all the wealth which is pretty much what happens now Socialism does not work because people are NOT equal. End of story. Why would the working people give it away to all those loons lazing around in their jacuzzis drinking champagne and "developing" themselves. Today we call it the tax system where those who do work are legally robbed and have to give it to those who don't work. I agree that aspect of monetarism is inherently faulty because it creates an irresponsible underclass. That's divisive which is the opposite of socialism. I don't know how old you are but I'm guessing if you are under 30 you have years of frustrating disappointment ahead of you. We had all this technology will break us free nonsense years ago and all it has done is divide between the haves and have nots. Take some good advice and make sure you are one of the haves. There are lots of people on this forum who think life owes them a living. They are the bitter, disappointed ones because they aren't sitting in jacuzzis drinking champagne while someone else does all the heavy lifting. You must have a fetish for champagne and jacuzzis. but because humans have evolved in an unfair, survival of the fittest world. That's basically what I said, you just put it into different words. But that doesn't mean we are on the threshold of a new order either. Humans are simple too 'base' at this moment in time... maybe in a millennia or two? What we need is a value shift and a change in consiousness on the scale of the Rennaisance. If it could happen hundreds of years ago, in the darkest times of history, amidst fervent religious opposition, why can it not happen now/in a few years/in a few decades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 What we need is a value shift and a change in consiousness on the scale of the Rennaisance. If it could happen hundreds of years ago, in the darkest times of history, amidst fervent religious opposition, why can it not happen now/in a few years/in a few decades? Then you're talking to the wrong audience - you need to convince the likes of the USA, China etc - not a few people on SF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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