IAchilleasI Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 You said early in this debate that the system caused greed. Either way, you still haven't given an answer to the chicken and egg dilemma. Yes, the system caused greed, but greed wasn't required for its conception. You represented greed as the egg and the chicken as the system, when in fact it's scarcity that is the egg. A testament to this is that, as I said in my previous post, the monetary system attempts to alleviate scarcity via the circulation of money, but it eventually fails to do so. How do you change a system that encourages greedy behaviour, without first eliminating scarcity, when you have already acknowledged that to eliminate scarcity we need to change the system? There needs to be a tremendous value shift that will come from the understanding that the monetary system is not indefinitely sustainable. When people realise that their survivability hangs in the balance, I'd like to think that they would want to do something about it. We either build a system that supersedes what we currently have or we perish. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky3 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 ... There needs to be a tremendous value shift that will come from the understanding that the monetary system is not indefinitely sustainable. When people realise that their survivability hangs in the balance, I'd like to think that they would want to do something about it. We either build a system that supersedes what we currently have or we perish. Simple as that. That sounds like an idea, not fact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAchilleasI Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 That sounds like an idea, not fact! The unsustainability of the monetary system is a fact. How we come about transitioning it, since we have no definitive evidence, can only come from speculation. We can always narrow down the possibilites though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky3 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 The unsustainability of the monetary system is a fact. How we come about transitioning it, since we have no definitive evidence, can only come from speculation. We can always narrow down the possibilites though And any evidence of a non monetary type system working on a grand enough scale to be adoptable worldwide, or have all attempts failed or turned into dictated oppression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAchilleasI Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 And any evidence of a non monetary type system working on a grand enough scale to be adoptable worldwide, or have all attempts failed or turned into dictated oppression? No non-monetary system has ever been attempted in the first place, so you're jumping the gun a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky3 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 No non-monetary system has ever been attempted in the first place, so you're jumping the gun a little bit. So how are you so sure that it is the only way to avoid perishing? BTW, i've lived in a few communes... Ok, so which socialist sates haven't gone the same way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAchilleasI Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 So how are you so sure that it is the only way to avoid perishing? BTW, i've lived in a few communes... Since the monetary system is unsustainable, the only solution lies with an alternative. If there is no viable alternative, then we are pretty much ****ed, rendering any of our efforts to solve problems equal to kicking the can down the road. Ok, so which socialist sates haven't gone the same way? Socialism still uses money, no? It still makes arbitrary decisions based on opinions rather than scientific evidence and it has little relevance to natural laws and the carrying capacity of the earth. So it definitely isn't an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky3 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Since the monetary system is unsustainable, the only solution lies with an alternative. If there is no viable alternative, then we are pretty much ****ed, rendering any of our efforts to solve problems equal to kicking the can down the road. Socialism still uses money, no? It still makes arbitrary decisions based on opinions rather than scientific evidence and it has little relevance to natural laws and the carrying capacity of the earth. So it definitely isn't an alternative. Your logic is flawed... There are issues with the current monetary system, but we are an evolving world and it can be tweaked, this won't be the last time. But as to you stating it's unsustainable is a comment, not fact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAchilleasI Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 There are issues with the current monetary system, but we are an evolving world and it can be tweaked, this won't be the last time. But as to you stating it's unsustainable is a comment, not fact! If you read my OP you will realise why it's a fact and not a comment. A system that survives on infinite growth in an environment with finite resources, on the circulation of money whilst encouraging its hoarding and on providing labour for income in increasingly automated industries, proves a pretty accurate description for the definition of unsustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky3 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 If you read my OP you will realise why it's a fact and not a comment. A system that survives on infinite growth in an environment with finite resources, on the circulation of money whilst encouraging its hoarding and on providing labour for income in increasingly automated industries, proves a pretty accurate description for the definition of unsustainable. Provide sources for your OP, at the moment it's just your point of view! NOT fact! BTW, it doesn't, that opinion is rather shallowly worked out, especially due to your conclusions about the solution, or lack thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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