magick Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I don't get dog showing, I see these people looking all proud and happy to have won 'yay my dog conforms best to a written list of physical traits'. Wow... so? I can't imagine why that would matter to anyone . I don't agree with show at all, but in reply to this the people doing the showing are all happy and "yay my dog won" because that means more money for the breeder as a higher price can be put on any pups bred from the dog that has won, and thats basically is the only reason why its matters to these people, not in all cases but the majority anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_Hounds Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 There is definitely an element of that (money). and there is with the KC. For example, the kennel club accredited breeder scheme - a list of things an accredited breeder should do to be considered an accredited breeder. all you have to do to be one is tick an online box to agree to it and pay them the fee. what a load of rubbish. when I bred my great dane, one of the guys who bought a pup asked me if I was an accredited breeder. i said i wasnt because I didnt believe in paying the KC for the privelage but that I followed each one of the guidelines anyway. I think the KC is a good thing but they cant 'police' every litter so it's upto the consumer to do their checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magick Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 its not crufts or the KCs fault that there are these problems in breeds, it's back yard breeders IMO. KC registered doesn't mean a thing most "back yard Breeders" & Puppy farmers have KC registered dogs, as no one actually attends these addresses to make sure the dogs are actually pedigree dogs, These people just pay their fee to KC and send for their papers in the post. So it doesn't make a difference tbh and why on the program pedigree dogs exposed, was a health problem in boxers traced back through its family tree to a KC registered stud dog at a KC registered breeding kennels, also the KC registered spaniel that had Syringomyelia that was shown in this program that the woman had been told not to breed from but had still bred 300 and something pups from this dog 20 something of which also had the condition. Its not just "back yard breeders" that get it wrong KC ones do aswell, you get good and bad breeders one either side of the scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magick Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 There is definitely an element of that (money). and there is with the KC. For example, the kennel club accredited breeder scheme - a list of things an accredited breeder should do to be considered an accredited breeder. all you have to do to be one is tick an online box to agree to it and pay them the fee. what a load of rubbish. when I bred my great dane, one of the guys who bought a pup asked me if I was an accredited breeder. i said i wasnt because I didnt believe in paying the KC for the privelage but that I followed each one of the guidelines anyway. I think the KC is a good thing but they cant 'police' every litter so it's upto the consumer to do their checks. Very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_Hounds Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I dont think you can totally blame the KC. What you have said is true but the KC works towards ironing these health problems out. They say that you should ony breed 'to better the breed'. There have been many problems that can be stemmed back to a KC registered dog, it could be that the problem has since become a huge problem that it wasnt at the time. it could be that the breeder has said the parents were these two dogs who are champions when in actual fact the parents were these horrible unhealthy dogs. The KC would never know. thats why i said it is upto the consumer to do their checks. how can the KC possibly police it all? i dont consider puppy farms to be just back yard breeders. there are many people who breed their dogs whether it be once or five times and they dont know what they are doing, dont know anything about the breed, but think they have a lovely pet. the owner of the stud dog I used, who was a champion, was very careful when I approached her. she asked to see my bitchs family tree, wanted to know all about her and wanted to see her before she commited to letting me use her stud dog. she asked me all sorts of questions and kept in touch with me through the whole process. she also asked me to put restrictions on the puppies KC certificates. there are many many different aspects to these problems and i dont think that crufts or the KC can be blamed totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magick Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 there are many many different aspects to these problems and i dont think that crufts or the KC can be blamed totally. No thats why i said "you get good and bad breeders one either side of the scale." meaning KC or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex1985 Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 I agree its not just the kennel club its the kennel clubs all round the world. How many dogs die at crufts each year? If there was no breed standad we would have healthier dogs in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vwkittie Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I don't get dog showing, I see these people looking all proud and happy to have won 'yay my dog conforms best to a written list of physical traits'. Wow... so? I can't imagine why that would matter to anyone QUOTE] The Kennel Club has these lists to try to ensure that breeders only breed from 'healthy' stock. My great danes are show standard and are extremely healthy animals. That's why you are supposed to have hip scores done before breeding and eye tests. there are different tests that a breeder should do for different breeds to try and avoid the problems they are prone to like bad hip in gsds and bad eyes in cockers and heart problems in ckcs. its not crufts or the KCs fault that there are these problems in breeds, it's back yard breeders IMO. People should look at the dogs family tree before buying a pup. for exmple, my cocker has a 'spaniel eye' which she can't really see out of. it has deformed blood vessels, a smaller eye ball which causes the eyelid to droop and dry out, a bad lense and other things I cant even remember what the vet said. this dog would never win a show because of this so surely that is helping to breed out these problems? the problems lie with back yard breeders and people who buy from them IMO. But some of the breed standards AREN'T healthy animals as evidenced by the fact that some that won best in breed (so must have conformed best to the list) were rejected by an independent vet check and couldn't go forward. That pretty much shows that some of the breed standards are very wrong. But then anyone can see that by looking at the pictures of the show type Neapolitan mastiff there compared to the working type. You'd have to be blind to not realise there's something VERY wrong with that. Also as showed in the recent channel 4 documentary, many pedigree breeds have problems that aren't tested for. Yes you may be buying a puppy that has been hipscored etc but that doesn't mean it's inbreeding doesn't give it a much higher chance of getting cancer later in life (there was a very shocking statistic about this given but I can't remember what it was). Or those poor cavaliers, there was no test for that horrible condition and it sometimes only showed up later on in life so dogs having that problem could have already had puppies etc. But yes I think Magik is right, it's all greed and money and people who need external stuff to show off about to feel good about themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabcakes Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 there are good & bad breeders to many of them i'm afraid when i had a litter from June & gorge i had already got homes for them before they was born when all their puppy's had gone i had people calling wanting one of their pups & if i knew of any breeders i did know of some but i wasn't giving them the contact number as i know they wasn't very good there was gorges breeder but she has stopped breeding now but i now have a very good basset breeder that i keep in touch with & will gladly pass her number on i think it was right what crufts did if the breed wasn't right then it wasn't right but one thing i don't agree with is the way the show GSD looks why do they have to have that terrible slope on their backs i hate it & i just don't think it looks good at all to me the slop on their backs seem to be getting lower & lower http://crufts.fossedata.co.uk/Group.asp?ShowYear=2012&GroupID=PAS & this is just disgusting http://crufts.fossedata.co.uk/Group.asp?ShowYear=2012&GroupID=PAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strix Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I notice there are people on this thread who don't know my stance on dog breeding already For those who don't know, both show and working beagles in the nineteen fifties couldn't be told apart, and the same with bassets. Now, show beagles look like old beagles, but hunting ones have become racier and shorter in the ear... and like the puppy farmed ones, can have Chinese Beagle Syndrome - which I've not come across in the show beagles Now bassets... I HATE what the show bassets have become. I'm watching this breed with interest, as we've been out with a couple of different working packs of bassets, one of which USED to be the working section for the KC hounds, so nearly all of those hounds are KC registered, and eligible to enter KC shows, but they look nothing like those you see in the show rings currently. I'd be thrilled to bits if an Albany Basset won best in breed at Crufts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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