xenia Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Those chances they took with all that investment capital that led to the global financial crisis you mean? The current problems we face and the high budget deficit are the direct result of their reckless actions - they only survived when national governments around the world stepped in to support them through nationalisation of banks and quantative easing. Socialism didn't cause the crisis - capitalism did. The vast majority of the employers in this country have nothing to do with banks or the LABOUR politicians who allowed them to go crazy. They create small and medium sized companies that pay most of the tax and most of the employment that we all benefit from. Their tax should reflect their overall value and not just what they personally earn. They should be rewarded for their inventiveness and entrepanuership not penalised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenia Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 No they weren't. Show us the maths. Scum is as Scum does. To call the elected government "scum" is a disgrace. They are attempting to clear up the devastation that those you appear to support caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenia Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Whereas any sensible person would just ignore the post as the blatherings of an idiot. The idiot awaits your correction.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I hope he does lower the higher tax rate to 40%. 1% of the population pay 33% of the tax. These are the businessmen, entrepanuers who take the chances, create the jobs and the wealth and deserve to pay less tax.Make the UK a place were such people thrive, we will all be better off. Socialism has failed. Capitalism is the future. Ask the Russians and the Chinese. They have learned the lesson the hard way. To save money stop the dole, privatise the NHS and the rest of the public sector. You honestly think more jobs will be created if the bracket is dropped? And it will be, that's for sure. All it will do is create even more profit for greedy bosses and shareholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You honestly think more jobs will be created if the bracket is dropped? And it will be, that's for sure. All it will do is create even more profit for greedy bosses and shareholders. Do you think that everyone in the highest band is greedy? Or do you think all greedy people are in the highest band? Or something else that fits neither of those questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenia Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You honestly think more jobs will be created if the bracket is dropped? And it will be, that's for sure. All it will do is create even more profit for greedy bosses and shareholders. If you dont have the wealth creators you have no wealth. Whose going to pay for beloved NHS and public services then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenia Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Do you think that everyone in the highest band is greedy? Or do you think all greedy people are in the highest band? Or something else that fits neither of those questions? Greed is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sibon Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Greed is good. It isn't actually. The last four years are ample proof of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenia Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I agree with your first few paragraphs. I think lower income taxes would encourage more business to be done in the UK and actually lead to more tax revenue in the long term. However, I think to say "socialism has failed" is like someone taking the bailouts, state subsidies and protectionist measures of the current system and saying "capitalism has failed", because if a so-called private enterprise system needs state intervention on the level it currently does then it can't be very efficient. Plus, the current system is unsustainable because it's based on a single bottom line that does not take into account any externalities. But of course, it's wrong to look at the current strain of capitalism and then broadly condemn capitalism in its entirety, simply because what we have now is opposed by many pro-capitalist economists and theorists. Equally, it's wrong to look at what happened in the Soviet Union and China and condemn socialism in its entirety, because what they had was a very authoritarian and centralised form of what was traditionally a decentralised, libertarian economic theory. What has failed is STATE socialism. What has also failed (or is at least now limping on its last legs) is STATE sponsored, corporate capitalism. In both systems the state has been a large and integral part of the economy, whether centrally planned by bureaucrats, or by subsidising big business that serves the interests of government policy. The issue is not capitalism vs socialism, rather how can we draw from the breadth of work in these two economic theories and create a sustainable system that also promotes individual liberty. I believe mutualism has a large part to play in the new economy, which does not sacrifice the key tenets of a free market, it just redefines the nature of private property, which is an elementary government role in even minarchist systems. I fully repect your intelligent and well thought through statement. However I do not view the bank catastrophe as a truly capitalist inspired event. True capitalists would have let them fail, yes it would have meant a truly terrible outcome but from the ruins a better system may well have evolved. The problem was that left of centre champagne socialist politicians coupled with city spivs caused this, here, and in the USA. True capitalism will pull us through, its already happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 However I do not view the bank catastrophe as a truly capitalist inspired event. Agreed. Capitalism cannot be to blame because what we have today is obviously not pure capitalism. It is disingenuous and frankly opportunistic of any socialist to claim that capitalism is to blame. There are far stronger arguments on the economic left against the current system (rightly dubbed "actually existing capitalism" - the type of capitalism that needs a nanny state) that interestingly find a lot of common ground with the libertarian right. True capitalists would have let them fail, yes it would have meant a truly terrible outcome but from the ruins a better system may well have evolved. If we were to bail anyone out I'd rather we bail out people than failed institutions. You're right, they should be left to fail and liquidise in the marketplace. True capitalism will pull us through, its already happening. Now, this I would dispute Or I would at least dispute it could pull us through in a way that was truly sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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