IAchilleasI Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I laugh at them. I don't laugh with them, don't play silly stupid games anymore, have more fun now and don't want to spoil it. Why do you want me to be a lier? That is what commons is end of day, lowest form of human unconsiousness. . The public sucks, not just the politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenia Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 As you know IAchilleasI... it's the system. If something is scarce then its value goes up. There is an abundance of people who can stack shelves therefore the value of a shelf stacker is low. As jobs become more intellectually challenging, difficult, risky, stressful etc then the fewer people there are to do them. Therefore the value of a company director, operational manager, doctor, lawer etc, etc, is much higher than the shelf stacker. The pay discrepancy may sometime be enormous (even galling) but a punitive tax system is no going to change the system. People will either find a way around it or will take their money and business to a country that is more friendly... even countries are in competition. Listen ye to Zamo for he speaketh the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenia Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire. The self-attribution fallacy touted by the richest in society isn't going to fool people forever. It has up to now and it will continue to do so, there is a reason for this. It is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire. The self-attribution fallacy touted by the richest in society isn't going to fool people forever. I didn't link 'value' to hard work and enterprise (although obviously contributing factors) but to the scarcity of ability and skills. A brain surgeon who can save lives by performing operations that only a handful of people in the world can do will have immense value and the scarcity of his talent will determine the market rate. Meanwhile an African woman may toil in the fields for 18 hours a day but if there is an abundance of the product she produces then it has little value. It is a cruel world and it is unrealistic to think you can equalise it by introducing a more aggressive wealth distribution taxation system in the UK. The 'market' is global and the rich and talented will simply go elsewhere if you push too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 . The public sucks, not just the politicians. Human nature (the product of a cruel world) sucks and that's the problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAchilleasI Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It has up to now and it will continue to do so, there is a reason for this. It is true. The reason is that most people are willing to gobble it up as the truth because they identify with the self-attribution fallacy themselves. We like to think that we have earned the comfortable lives that we live, since it justifies the fact that not everyone can live the same comfortable life. To convince ourselves further, we attach labels to those who we don't consider to be "worthy" of the good life. It's the only way to supress the innate empathy we feel towards them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAchilleasI Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I didn't link 'value' to hard work and enterprise (although obviously contributing factors) but to the scarcity of ability and skills. The scarcity of skill is only a scarcity of education. If labour is indeed a commodity to be traded in a free market, then workers should be rewarded based on how scarce they are rather than the dangers or risks they face or their contribution to society. Is this what you advocate? A brain surgeon who can save lives by performing operations that only a handful of people in the world can do will have immense value and the scarcity of his talent will determine the market rate. Meanwhile an African woman may toil in the fields for 18 hours a day but if there is an abundance of the product she produces then it has little value. I wonder how many lives an equity trader or a hedge fund manager saves to be able to earn dozens of times the average wage. I wonder what skills they require, other than being able to flip a coin. I've studied Technical analysis and all these other techniques stock traders think will lead them to success and what it basically entails is being able to predict human behaviour. So unless they have crystal balls, they are merely chimpanzees flipping coins. Human nature (the product of a cruel world) sucks and that's the problem! Thankfully, human nature is maleable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenia Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The reason is that most people are willing to gobble it up as the truth because they identify with the self-attribution fallacy themselves. We like to think that we have earned the comfortable lives that we live, since it justifies the fact that not everyone can live the same comfortable life. To convince ourselves further, we attach labels to those who we don't consider to be "worthy" of the good life. It's the only way to supress the innate empathy we feel towards them. I can only speak for myself, but I certainly do think that all I have I have earned, I do not believe I was entitled to anything. From an early age I realised that if I wanted anything I had to earn it. No one has ever "given" me anything. Despite my right wing beliefs I am grateful of my state (secondary modern) education. Also despite my reservations the fact that we have a NHS is a blessng. But I pay for them through my taxes. I do not discriminate, at all, ever, a man or woman is "worthy" whatever their religion caste or creed if they work and contribute here or abroad. Those who "try" have my empathy even if they fail, those who take without contribution do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I didn't link 'value' to hard work and enterprise (although obviously contributing factors) but to the scarcity of ability and skills. A brain surgeon who can save lives by performing operations that only a handful of people in the world can do will have immense value and the scarcity of his talent will determine the market rate. Meanwhile an African woman may toil in the fields for 18 hours a day but if there is an abundance of the product she produces then it has little value. It is a cruel world and it is unrealistic to think you can equalise it by introducing a more aggressive wealth distribution taxation system in the UK. The 'market' is global and the rich and talented will simply go elsewhere if you push too hard. Maybe the woman in the fields has the potential to become a brain surgeon if only she had the chance. Talent has to have the opportunity to flourish or it is wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAchilleasI Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 From an early age I realised that if I wanted anything I had to earn it. No, I don't think so. You never earned your parents'/guardians' love, care and support. Your childhood was the foundation of who you are, what you know and everything you do. You, or me or anyone else never earned their upbringing, it was granted to them by the altruism of their families. You haven't earned the knowledge that has been acquired and passed down for hundreds of generations and the technology that came with it that improves your standard of living. All of these were granted to us by our predecessors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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