Pie Tax horror announced in Budget

[Jim Graham]

Yeah, well they ought to pull their finger out then.

 

How many people have left because of high taxes? Virtually none. It's just an empty threat and everyone knows it. Let them leave the UK, there are millions of people who would step into their place faster than you say, "Boo Hoo."

 

Millions of people are already here. They came anyway because Labour left the doors open. Few of them brought anything with them so we have to pay for them all.

 

The "trickle down" effect of having rich people here has been tried before and doesn't work. All it does is push up property prices in London. Most of them pay virtually no UK tax anyway because they keep their wealth elsewhere. We now have higher taxes on the rich than we had for 11 years of Labour government so it's a bit hypocritical (no change there then) of the left to be complaining. They had 11 years to put in place a tax regime that worked but chose not to do so. Brown was too busy taxing the poor, old, sick, young and disabled and giving it to the workshy.

[quisquose]

VAT is not just a tax on luxuries. It's a tax on goods and services, e.g. Getting a roof repair.

 

Yes caravans can be considered a luxury but the VAT system is also flexible enough to cope with special economic cases. Because of the potential impact of the tax on tourism and manufacturing it is a special case. Estimates of job losses were 7-8000

 

You really should listen to what Martin Vickers, Tory MP for Cleethorpes, has been saying. He explains it far better than me. If you google 'Martin Vickers caravan' you will find a few articles. Read at your leisure

 

I've heard a lot of what Martin Vickers has been saying recently, since my TV ariel points to Belmont, and I can't say I find his arguments very convincing. Bravo to him for special pleading on behalf of his constituents, can't fault him for that, but his arguments are still flawed.

 

However, rather than refer to the arguments of somebody else here, it would be better if you could actually explain the reasons as you see them. Why exactly do you think that caravans should attract a lower rate of VAT than cars, boats or roof repairs?

 

Or why, for that matter, a takeaway lunch of hot meat & potato wrapped in pastry should attract a lower rate of VAT than a takeaway lunch of hot fish wrapped in batter?

[Kadogo]

Will this cause a reprise in the Just Seen an Old Lady Get Pied Thread ?

 

(Passty it on).

[HeadingNorth]

However, rather than refer to the arguments of somebody else here, it would be better if you could actually explain the reasons as you see them. Why exactly do you think that caravans should attract a lower rate of VAT than cars, boats or roof repairs?

 

Or why, for that matter, a takeaway lunch of hot meat & potato wrapped in pastry should attract a lower rate of VAT than a takeaway lunch of hot fish wrapped in batter?

 

I'd like to pose that question to everybody. I've yet to hear any person who was opposed to the changes in the budget, even attempt to give an answer. All they've done is complain that Tories like taxing poor people.

[I1L2T3]

I've heard a lot of what Martin Vickers has been saying recently, since my TV ariel points to Belmont, and I can't say I find his arguments very convincing. Bravo to him for special pleading on behalf of his constituents, can't fault him for that, but his arguments are still flawed.

 

However, rather than refer to the arguments of somebody else here, it would be better if you could actually explain the reasons as you see them. Why exactly do you think that caravans should attract a lower rate of VAT than cars, boats or roof repairs?

 

Or why, for that matter, a takeaway lunch of hot meat & potato wrapped in pastry should attract a lower rate of VAT than a takeaway lunch of hot fish wrapped in batter?

 

I've already explained about the special economic case regarding the potential fragility of the caravan manufacturing industry and also about the fragility of tourism. Not my issue if you chose to ignore it.

 

You need to ask the Treasury too I guess. They listened and reduced the proposed tax from 20 to 5% indicating that they too accept the special case arguments. I think the VAT should have continued to be waived.

[I1L2T3]

I'd like to pose that question to everybody. I've yet to hear any person who was opposed to the changes in the budget, even attempt to give an answer. All they've done is complain that Tories like taxing poor people.

 

I gave quite a detailed non-political argument regarding the economic case earlier in thread. You're another one who is choosing to ignore it.

[HeadingNorth]

I've already explained about the special economic case

 

You didn't offer any reason to believe there was anything special about it. Why should caravan manufacturers be treated any differently from everybody else? (Special pleading arguments, by definition, will always be ignored as invalid, precisely because they are special pleading.)

[HeadingNorth]

I gave quite a detailed non-political argument regarding the economic case earlier in thread.

 

Are you referring to the post where you claimed that caravans were a luxury? Because if so, that was an argument in favour of imposing VAT on them, not an argument against.

[quisquose]

I've already explained about the special economic case regarding the potential fragility of the caravan manufacturing industry and also about the fragility of tourism. Not my issue if you chose to ignore it.

 

I don't choose to ignore it, my penchant for rational and logical thought demands that I ignore it.

 

As Heading North and myself have said it is simply special pleading, "my industry is more important than yours". It's not a valid argument.

 

Most UK manufacturing industries are struggling, and the caravan industry is not more important than the boat industry. Giving the caravan businesses favourable tax status is detrimental to other businesses competing for our money, such as the boat industry and the hotel industry. It is unfair.

 

Giving the pastie takeaway business favourable tax status over other takeaway business is also unfair. It favours Greggs ahead of Harry Ramsdens.

 

You need to ask the Treasury too I guess. They listened and reduced the proposed tax from 20 to 5% indicating that they too accept the special case arguments. I think the VAT should have continued to be waived.

 

I suspect the Government has listened to a barrage of lobbying, media and public opinion, motivated by little more than party politics. It has annoyed me immensely because it highlights why our political system is such a mess. Votes before common sense. A pox on all their houses.

[Lounge Jay]

What a complete waste of government energy. We're in the midst of the worst financial storm since 1929 and the government managed to create a crisis out of pasties and caravans. Couldn't make it up.

 

To be fair Its the media that chose to focus on these things. I think this government now realises that having a Peter Mandleson or Alastair Campbell figure is necassary after all.