Strix Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 So what? Bent coppers took money to kill Liverpool FC supporters? The accident was caused by Liverpool fans, many of whom were drunk and surging into the ground. If the Liverpool fans had behaved themselves that day, there wouldn't have been any deaths. Now the police knew this and it was their job to prevent fans from causing deaths, and they failed to do this, and later lied because they knew the media had it out for them. But in no way is it a black and white argument, and shame on the Guardian for making it look that way. And Liverpool and it's fans need to get over it. They can't not play matches on April 15th for the rest of time. Duckinfield's boss, who had been doing the job in previous years - until his promotion - was so appalled by the mismanagement by Duckinfield that he offered to resign himself. Interesting that Duckinfield didn't The surge of fans was caused by old jammed turnstiles holding up entry into the ground, traffic delays on the M62, and a strange lack of the usual police supervision of the fans approaching the ground. When the match kicked off and many fans with tickets were still outside, of course there was an increase in urgency to get into the ground - and scientific studies on crowd behaviour have (in the aftermath) shown that individuals in a crowd have about as much control over the mass they're part of as the particle in a gas do Not only were PEOPLE dying inside the ground, but Duckinfield was directly responsible for preventing the emergency services from reaching them, compounding the situation Brady and Hindley never remembered where they buried one of their victims. Should that kid's mum 'just get over it'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petminder Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Or maybe they just feel it's important that people should know the truth about the police - i.e. that they sometimes lie, frame innocent people and break the law. I think that should be applied to humans and not just the police, from priests to politicians, the unemployed to business executives, I would think many will lie and break the law on occasions and most people already know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The accident was caused by Liverpool fans, many of whom were drunk and surging into the ground. The police failed to even try to control the crowd and instead opened the gates letting everyone in at once, all funnelled into the same pen and crushing people at the front. You missed that bit out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubydazzler Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Is this another attempt to talk about the Hillsborough disaster by the back door, so to speak? It's been discussed endlessly on this site. You should all know by now that it always ends the same way. People are never going to be in accord on what actually happened that day. For the sake of the innocent victims, can we please let it lie? Surely there's enough to discuss about policing without harking back about policing methods from 30/40 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferno Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 n the parliamentary debate last year, Burnham and his fellow Merseyside Labour MPs, Steve Rotheram and Eagle, described South Yorkshire police's post-Hillsborough operation as "a brutal campaign to set public opinion against the supporters", "a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice" and "an establishment cover-up". The home secretary, Theresa May, did not dispute those interpretations, and maintained the coalition government's commitment to full disclosure of all police and public documents, via the independent panel, to the families first, then the public. "The families of the 96 deserve the truth," May said. Margaret Aspinall, the chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group whose 18-year-old son, James, was killed in the disaster, said she and other families knew very little about the earlier Orgreave events. "We sent our children and loved ones to a football match," she said. "We entrusted their lives to the care of those policemen. I never dreamed South Yorkshire police had been involved in such things during the miners' strike. This puts the jigsaw pieces together: it helps me to understand what happened, how they treated us." Cathartic for the families, finally the pieces are coming together, good for them if this can lead to a closure. The families have seen years of lies from South Yorkshire police, the truth is unlikely to come from that quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Cathartic for the families, finally the pieces are coming together, good for them if this can lead to a closure. The families have seen years of lies from South Yorkshire police, the truth is unlikely to come from that quarter. What exactly do you want ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrod Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Who says Liverpool supporters or the miners were totally blameless? Whilst its clear the police behaviours and post event actions have been negligent they cannot and should not be blamed for the events. Every action has a consequence and these tragic events have a catalist that starts them happening. What exactly was that? What caused the police to act in the way they did? What could have been done to prevent it? Everyone is responsible for their own actions and there is always two sides to every story. The Guardian seem to have ignored that part. No mention of how the liverpool fans were behaving pre tradegy. No mention of how the miners were behaving during their "protest". Exactly, blame the authorities not the rioting miners or loutish football mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferno Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 What exactly do you want ? Same as the families, the truth. Who stole the video tape? Who stole Baird's evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferno Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Exactly, blame the authorities not the rioting miners or loutish football mob. The miners said they were ushered into the field by police – a puzzling change from the normal practice of blocking access routes and turning them away. The police version of events was that the miners had massed together and launched a violent assault before the horses were unleashed. According to Jackson and the others accused, there was very little trouble before the miners were charged by mounted police, then by officers wielding truncheons and short shields. The miners' evidence was supported by the police's own official video, which showed groups of miners relaxing in the sunshine. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/12/hillsborough-battle-orgreave Why are so people so anxious to defend the police lies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I rememer watching Orgreave with my own eyes, the coppers charged the miners and the news reports tried to make out it was all the miners faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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