More disgrace for SYP

[rubydazzler]

Eh? I don't understand any of this?

That's probably because you have little comprehension of anything other than your own blatherings?

[Frank Sidney]

I think its unfair to blame ordinary police officers for what happened. That's just silly, a bit of a liberty really. The culprits were right at the top of the command chain. Ordinary Officers were as much victims as were the fans.

 

I remember reading about some officers at the side of the pitch who repeatedly asked command for permission to open the gates and let people spill onto the pitch. Their requests were constantly refused. It must be difficult for such Officers to now be accused...

[bigjoker]

South Yorkshire police, who blamed Liverpool supporters for the disaster in 1989, had made strikingly similar blunders during the miners' strike in 1984, when 95 men were prosecuted for rioting – all were acquitted amid allegations of fabrication.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/12/hillsborough-battle-orgreave

 

 

39 miners were paid an unprecedented £425,000, plus costs, by South Yorkshire police to settle civil claims that included assault, malicious prosecution and wrongful arrest.

 

All this to get back at the police because you have received a speeding ticket, what a sad little demented person you must be/ :hihi:

[Mrs Overall]

I was a young PC at Orgreave in 1984. I had never been more scared in my life. I was a slightly older PC at Hillsborough in 1989. I had never been more saddened in my life. All I will say is that on both occasions my colleagues and I acted at the sharp end with professionalism in extremely difficult circumstances. Both these incidents (and many more I encountered during thirty years service) were frightening and heartbreaking in equal measure. I was there, and saw things the posters on here haven't and hopefully never will. Try sleeping after these incidents or reassuring your wife and small children. I did my best, as did so many others. Please don't judge us all.

 

:sad:

[Jim Graham]

Most of us realise that, Millerdan. Try not to let it get to you.

 

Most of the people on this site who spend their time to judge and criticise others would be incapable of doing it themselves or able to deal with the things even a 19 year old police officer or soldier is expected to deal with daily.

 

It's a class and political thing with people like ferno, they don't seem to realise that the windmills they spend their lives tilting at represent real people, with feelings.

 

 

The people I "tilt" at are those at the top who have stepped on plenty of other people's faces to get to there. They enjoy the power and the perks but when it all goes horribly wrong they make excuses, they blame everyone but themselves and they ensure the rules and regulations protect them from being held accountable. Nowhere is that more true than the police.

 

I have no doubt that the rank and file on duty at Hillsborough did what they could in the face of abject incompetence from senior officers. The cover up was masterminded by those at the top once it was clear that those responsible for public safety had failed miserably.

[ferno]

The cover up was masterminded by those at the top once it was clear that those responsible for public safety had failed miserably.

 

Quite a elaborate and extensive cover up, tapes going missing, evidence going astray, signatures forged. All of this didn't originate with the rank and file, and NOBODY has faced justice. 95 people faced possible life sentences because the police lied and lied and lied.

 

South Yorkshire police's response immediately afterwards was strikingly similar to its later conduct after Hillsborough: to brief the most senior politicians and the media that the miners had attacked the 4,000-strong ranks of police, many in full riot gear, and to say theofficers had only been defending themselves. In the House of Commons Thatcher described the miners' conduct as "mob rule".

 

 

And the £425,000 paid out? We paid that. Fining the police is simply moving taxpayers' money around. No wonder some people want the whole tawdry episode to just go away.

[rubydazzler]

The people I "tilt" at are those at the top...

As you've chosen to quote me, I'll reply. I hadn't realised you did any 'tilting', but I wasn't referring to anyone personally, just the general 'nothing good to say about anyone in authority' contingent so prevalant on here.

 

It gets tedious after a while, especially when none of them seem to be the sort of people who ever do anything useful to help humanity, just sit on internet fora and post bile.

[Jim Graham]

Quite a elaborate and extensive cover up, tapes going missing, evidence going astray, signatures forged. All of this didn't originate with the rank and file, and NOBODY has faced justice. 95 people faced possible life sentences because the police lied and lied and lied.

 

 

 

 

And the £425,000 paid out? We paid that. Fining the police is simply moving taxpayers' money around. No wonder some people want the whole tawdry episode to just go away.

 

 

 

Perhaps one of the most disgusting elements of the cover up is the possibility that the rank and file officers were leaned on by the senior plods to change their evidence or face some sort of retribution in their career progression. I suspect that may have happened to more than a few.

[ferno]

Do you think we shouldn't ask questions about police corruption and lies? Just stay quiet and it will all go away>? Wouldn't that be an insult to the victims?

 

"Of particular concern," the minutes of its 5 August 1985 meeting state, "were the allegations of a forged signature on one of the police statements, and parts of other statements having been compiled and dictated by another officer. If true, these allegations amounted to inaccurate perjured evidence at the very least, and called into credibility … the chief constable."

 

 

Margaret Aspinall, the chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group whose 18-year-old son, James, was killed in the disaster, said she and other families knew very little about the earlier Orgreave events.

 

"We sent our children and loved ones to a football match," she said. "We entrusted their lives to the care of those policemen. I never dreamed South Yorkshire police had been involved in such things during the miners' strike. This puts the jigsaw pieces together: it helps me to understand what happened, how they treated us

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/12/hillsborough-battle-orgreave

 

Why would anyone oppose the families finding out what really happened?

[ferno]

Perhaps one of the most disgusting elements of the cover up is the possibility that the rank and file officers were leaned on by the senior plods to change their evidence or face some sort of retribution in their career progression. I suspect that may have happened to more than a few.

 

More than a possibility, this definitely happened:

 

The South Yorkshire police operation to avoid blame for the disaster, and to allege misbehaviour by the supporters, was maintained as a corporate task by senior police officers, overseen by Wright. Junior officers were ordered to rewrite their statements from the day, to remove criticism of the police's operation and emphasise misconduct by supporters.

 

The police presented that case aggressively to Taylor's inquiry, then to the inquest that followed, where the jury, to the families' enduring dismay, returned a verdict of accidental death. No police officer was ever disciplined for the failures that led to 96 deaths, a perceived lack of accountability that forms the core of the families' 23-year campaign.

 

Not one single police officer is understood to have been disciplined for anything arising out of Orgreave, for either the alleged assaults on miners, or the allegations of fabricated evidence.