Road Rage Incident - Objective advice wanted

[AJ sheffield]

Or criminal damage is punished by the death penalty.

 

If me and you are side by side driving up the motorway and you are nailing my car I dont care one jot if you fall off and die, your life would have been in your own hands.

[Stomp]

I have made an interesting discovery today.

 

I decided, having read each and every response to my thread, to test three things:

 

1 - How far I have to press the brake pedal to illuminate the brake lights (In my old W reg Clio you practically had to stand on the brake pedal before the lights came on)

2 - How far I have to press the brake pedal to deactivate cruise control

3 - How quickly the car decellerated upon cancelation of the CC

 

I had a relitivley clear run from J37 to J39 so decided to test number 2 first. I found that the slightest push on the brake pedal turned off the cruise control. Compared with the clutch where the CC didn't deactivate until just before bite point.

 

So, I then tested number 3. I found the deceleration very fast indeed. If using the brake pedal to kill the CC I found I couldn't get to the accelerator before losing about 3mph.

 

Having then parked up at work in the multi-story I could see the reflection of my brake lights on the wall. So I decided to test number 1 here.

 

Again I found that the lightest of touches illuminated the brake lights, and interestingly stayed on for at least half a second after I (thought) released the pedal.

 

So from all of these tests I concluded thusly:

 

I inadvertently started the incident, by being lazy, and using the brake pedal to deactivate cruise control.

 

The underlying case was a combination of:

1) The motorcyclist riding too close to the rear of my vehcile

2) The brake lights staying illuminated slightly after removing my foot from the brake pedal

3) The resulting rapid deceleration of the vehicle after the cruise control was terminated

4) The resulting compensating acceleration of the vehicle upon placing my foot on the accelerator to maintain a speed.

 

My conclusion is that the motorcyclist determined that this was a "brake test" due to him being so close. Nothing exuses the Motorcylists behaviour at any point of the incident. He was riding far too close to be able to stop in an emergency (for example if one of my tyres had blown, or a part of my vehicle falling off), and as has been pointed out above road rage on two wheels is incredibly dangerous, especially when having to take one hand off the handlebars in order to gesture and assault(?) another vehicle.

 

However that said, I have learned a new appreciation for others' perception of my activities on the road, and I should not have terminated the cruise control via the brake pedal, and should have in fact acknowledged the motorcyclist so he was aware that I had, in fact seen him, and not panicked at the last second and braked.

 

So I still feel that there is blame on both sides; I have never claimed to be completely innocent, however I do still feel that the motorcyclist should not have been so close in the first place, and then the sequence of events that led to the criminal damage of my vehicle would never have occured.

 

To those who have said they would have "kicked every panel" on the way past, or those who make wild and unfounded accusations of "hogging the outside lane" I say two things. Firstly, what a barbaric, and totally moronic attitude to have. Granted my behaviour in this example is far from Angelic, however you are the one on two wheels, so you have as much duty as the rest of us to drive/ride safely. You are not the Police (unless you happen to be a serving officer of course) and thus it is not your job to punish those on the road who you feel are not driving to your exacting standards.

 

If you feel thretened by someone on the road, then hang well back until you can safely pass them. If there is someone in front of you preventing you braking the law by pushing your vehicle to it's limits, then please have the decency to pass them when it is safe, and not expect them to come to your assistance if you should happen to come off for any reason. EDIT: Also, please don't get all up in their face, and weave from mirror to mirror or flash your headlights to bully them out if your way.

 

I believe there are some good safe bikers out there. Unfortunatley I have never seen one. That said, I am just a lowly car driver, who clearly knows nothing about motorcycling, by my own admission. But as much as you want us car drivers to see things from your point of view, please take a moment to see things from our point of view. We can't always see you, so don't assume we have.

 

I learned a valuable blind-spot lesson in my early driving days. Fortunatley the biker got out of my way in time, for I had not seen him at all. I was told in between profanities from him that he had been riding behind me for some 3 or 4 miles. I had not noticed his presence at all.

 

Thank you to those who have provided valuable feedback (you know who you are) - it is really appreciated.

[neeeeeeeeeek]

I am still at a loss to know how slowing down in that situation helped! You want to get out of his way, you can't pull into the left due to a car or whatever being in that lane, so why not carry on accelerating past the car so you could pull in. Which I understand is why you were in that lane to start with.

 

If you were not prepared to go faster than 80mph then why the hell where you overtaking other traffic in the first place!

[Alien52]

If me and you are side by side driving up the motorway and you are nailing my car I dont care one jot if you fall off and die, your life would have been in your own hands.

 

Are you really saying that your car is more important that a persons life?

[AJ sheffield]

Are you really saying that your car is more important that a persons life?

 

See the bit where I say "your life would have been in your own hands".

[sedith]

Motorcyclists are a bloody menace on the motorway! The amount of times I have been undertaken by motorcycles whilst overtaking is numerous.

[medusa]

I hope that I'm amongst the ones who have given constructive criticism (I certainly didn't post anything with an aim to be inflammatory or insulting) and if that has helped you to understand your own actions and how to make them safer then that's great.

 

You can never legislate for other people and their behaviour, even if that behaviour is dangerous. The best you can hope for is to take full responsibility for your own behaviour and aim to improve your own behaviour whenever possible.

 

It's clear that the biker acted inappropriately in his riding too close initially, but that's the part of this situation that you couldn't change.

[Stomp]

I am still at a loss to know how slowing down in that situation helped! You want to get out of his way, you can't pull into the left due to a car or whatever being in that lane, so why not carry on accelerating past the car so you could pull in. Which I understand is why you were in that lane to start with.

 

If you were not prepared to go faster than 80mph then why the hell where you overtaking other traffic in the first place!

 

Ok, so there are two questions here which I will answer in turn:

 

1 - How did slowing down help?

 

Answer: It didn't, clearly. However I wasn't trying to slow down. What I was trying to achieve was a deactivation of the cruise control, nothing more.

 

2 - If I wasn't prepared to go faster than 80...

 

Answer: I think that you've kinda answered your own question there.

 

Keep left unless overtaking. I was overtaking. The speed has nothing to do with it really. Lets say we are on a hilly stretch, and there is a lorry overtaking a lorry. The maximum speed for a lorry is 65mph. Are you really saying that unless I'm prepared to exceed 80mph I shouldn't enter the third lane?

 

In the situation I was in, the vehicles in lanes 1 and 2 the vehicles were going slower than I, and as such I was in lane 3 to overtake these vehicles. The speed at which I am prepared to go should have nothing to do with which lane I'm in. The fact that I was doing 80 (actually 75) is irrelevant really. The 10%+2 rule says that Police will not prosecute until >79mph.

[Stomp]

I hope that I'm amongst the ones who have given constructive criticism (I certainly didn't post anything with an aim to be inflammatory or insulting) and if that has helped you to understand your own actions and how to make them safer then that's great.

 

You can never legislate for other people and their behaviour, even if that behaviour is dangerous. The best you can hope for is to take full responsibility for your own behaviour and aim to improve your own behaviour whenever possible.

 

It's clear that the biker acted inappropriately in his riding too close initially, but that's the part of this situation that you couldn't change.

 

Very much so medusa. Sometimes I just need someone who can be completely objective to offer their viewpoint in a constructive manner.

[Eater Sundae]

I have made an interesting discovery today.

 

I decided, having read each and every response to my thread, to test three things:

 

1 - How far I have to press the brake pedal to illuminate the brake lights (In my old W reg Clio you practically had to stand on the brake pedal before the lights came on)

2 - How far I have to press the brake pedal to deactivate cruise control

3 - How quickly the car decellerated upon cancelation of the CC

 

I had a relitivley clear run from J37 to J39 so decided to test number 2 first. I found that the slightest push on the brake pedal turned off the cruise control. Compared with the clutch where the CC didn't deactivate until just before bite point.

 

So, I then tested number 3. I found the deceleration very fast indeed. If using the brake pedal to kill the CC I found I couldn't get to the accelerator before losing about 3mph.

 

Having then parked up at work in the multi-story I could see the reflection of my brake lights on the wall. So I decided to test number 1 here.

 

Again I found that the lightest of touches illuminated the brake lights, and interestingly stayed on for at least half a second after I (thought) released the pedal.

 

So from all of these tests I concluded thusly:

 

I inadvertently started the incident, by being lazy, and using the brake pedal to deactivate cruise control.

 

The underlying case was a combination of:

1) The motorcyclist riding too close to the rear of my vehcile

2) The brake lights staying illuminated slightly after removing my foot from the brake pedal

3) The resulting rapid deceleration of the vehicle after the cruise control was terminated

4) The resulting compensating acceleration of the vehicle upon placing my foot on the accelerator to maintain a speed.

 

My conclusion is that the motorcyclist determined that this was a "brake test" due to him being so close. Nothing exuses the Motorcylists behaviour at any point of the incident. He was riding far too close to be able to stop in an emergency (for example if one of my tyres had blown, or a part of my vehicle falling off), and as has been pointed out above road rage on two wheels is incredibly dangerous, especially when having to take one hand off the handlebars in order to gesture and assault(?) another vehicle.

 

However that said, I have learned a new appreciation for others' perception of my activities on the road, and I should not have terminated the cruise control via the brake pedal, and should have in fact acknowledged the motorcyclist so he was aware that I had, in fact seen him, and not panicked at the last second and braked.

 

So I still feel that there is blame on both sides; I have never claimed to be completely innocent, however I do still feel that the motorcyclist should not have been so close in the first place, and then the sequence of events that led to the criminal damage of my vehicle would never have occured.

 

To those who have said they would have "kicked every panel" on the way past, or those who make wild and unfounded accusations of "hogging the outside lane" I say two things. Firstly, what a barbaric, and totally moronic attitude to have. Granted my behaviour in this example is far from Angelic, however you are the one on two wheels, so you have as much duty as the rest of us to drive/ride safely. You are not the Police (unless you happen to be a serving officer of course) and thus it is not your job to punish those on the road who you feel are not driving to your exacting standards.

 

If you feel thretened by someone on the road, then hang well back until you can safely pass them. If there is someone in front of you preventing you braking the law by pushing your vehicle to it's limits, then please have the decency to pass them when it is safe, and not expect them to come to your assistance if you should happen to come off for any reason. EDIT: Also, please don't get all up in their face, and weave from mirror to mirror or flash your headlights to bully them out if your way.

 

I believe there are some good safe bikers out there. Unfortunatley I have never seen one. That said, I am just a lowly car driver, who clearly knows nothing about motorcycling, by my own admission. But as much as you want us car drivers to see things from your point of view, please take a moment to see things from our point of view. We can't always see you, so don't assume we have.

 

I learned a valuable blind-spot lesson in my early driving days. Fortunatley the biker got out of my way in time, for I had not seen him at all. I was told in between profanities from him that he had been riding behind me for some 3 or 4 miles. I had not noticed his presence at all.

 

Thank you to those who have provided valuable feedback (you know who you are) - it is really appreciated.

 

Re the bold bit. Remember that many motorcyclists are also car drivers, and so are already likely to appreciate the car driver's point of view. The same cannot be said for most car drivers, who do not have experience of riding a motorcycle.