MrSmith Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I think somebody earlier in the thread said that you were conflating two different words. If faith were the same as trust and vice versa then why have two words? Just one will do. The difference is the context in which they are used and how clear you're trying to express yourself. I have trust in science because I understand how it works and the tangible results it produces, therefore no faith is required. This is what the dictionary says about faith, complete trust or confidence in someone or something: It's not just life experiences though. It's about being educated to the point that you have access to alternative information, ideas and thought processes which allow you to rate the likelihood of a claim being true. To claim that making decisions based on that metaphysical state is the same as making decisions based on nothing but the ambiguous interpretation of ancient scriptures is asinine to say the least. Education relies on faith, you have to trust the person educating you or the book you read, and some people trust the person teaching them about God they have faith in that person or book. What is your definition of faith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I think somebody earlier in the thread said that you were conflating two different words. They were saying that MrSmith is conflating different definitions of the same word, which he does do, a lot. He also picks and chooses bits of definitions. This is what the dictionary says about faith, complete trust or confidence in someone or something: Education relies on faith, you have to trust the person educating you or the book you read, and some people trust the person teaching them about God they have faith in that person or book. What is your definition of faith? You seem to have missed a bit... 1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something: this restores one’s faith in politicians 2 strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof: bereaved people who have shown supreme faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 This is what the dictionary says about faith, complete trust or confidence in someone or something: Education relies on faith, you have to trust the person educating you or the book you read, and some people trust the person teaching them about God they have faith in that person or book. What is your definition of faith? It's funny that that's what you took from your education, mine taught me not to take things on faith and develop my own critical thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Nope from nothing, zilch, nada... I believe it derives from the Hartle-Hawking's no boundary proposal. http://prd.aps.org/abstract/PRD/v28/i12/p2960_1 And is explained in Hawking's book "The nature of space and time" jb Well that went over my head, but thanks for sharing it; I’ll file that in the waiting to be convinced section of my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 It's funny that that's what you took from your education, mine taught me not to take things on faith and develop my own critical thinking. So how do you decide that something you have been taught is fact? The height of Mount Everest is 8850 metres. How will you use critical thinking to accept this fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pininsho Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 This is what the dictionary says about faith, complete trust or confidence in someone or something: This is what somebody said earlier about you conflating two different definitions of faith and further conflating it with trust. You're talking about one definition of faith and using it in the wrong context. The definition of faith in the context of discussing religious people is belief without evidence. Your definition is therefore irrelevant when arguing from the religious perspective. Education relies on faith, you have to trust the person educating you or the book you read, and some people trust the person teaching them about God they have faith in that person or book. Education relies on you understanding the process by which you can rely on information being true or not. That's what distinguishes education from indoctrination. Critical thinking skills help you filter information like a sieve thereby negating the need for faith. What is your definition of faith? When discussing religion belief without evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 This is what somebody said earlier about you conflating two different definitions of faith and further conflating it with trust. You're talking about one definition of faith and using it in the wrong context. The definition of faith in the context of discussing religious people is belief without evidence. Your definition is therefore irrelevant when arguing from the religious perspective. They have evidance that the bible exists, and if they trust the contents to be factual then they have faith in the bible. Education relies on you understanding the process by which you can rely on information being true or not. That's what distinguishes education from indoctrination. Critical thinking skills help you filter information like a sieve thereby negating the need for faith. What process do you use to decide that a fact you have been taught is correct. When discussing religion belief without evidence. We're not discussing religion without evidence, we are discussing. Faith in a book that exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 So how do you decide that something you have been taught is fact? The height of Mount Everest is 8850 metres. How will you use critical thinking to accept this fact? In your example it's very easy to check to see if what your teacher is saying is wrong or right about Mount Everest. I'll talk you through it the process, as I would check anything. Firstly I'd find out which published work was professionally respected in that area, then I would then critique a number of pieces of the published work before I could draw my own conclusions. Basically I'd do a literature review. I work in a research based profession, if I took the word of a "teacher" and harm came to be because of my actions where I followed those teachings I alone would be held accountable. I was therefore taught to find out for myself and not rely upon the people teaching us to find if things are wrong or right, and I believe this is the point of a good education. Not to teach us "facts", but to equip us to find those 'facts" for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 They were saying that MrSmith is conflating different definitions of the same word, which he does do, a lot. He also picks and chooses bits of definitions. You seem to have missed a bit... As you can see from my first post on this, the definition of faith I am talking about is the one I have constantly used. Faith complete trust or confidence in someone or something. Ultimately in our search for knowledge we all need faith in the person imparting that knowledge. I know the atom is a unit of matter that consists of a nucleus surrounded by electrons, but I have never seen one. I have to trust the pictures I have seen. I imagine its the same with the bible they have faith that it is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I haven't voted in this poll because 3 out of 4 of the poll options are applicable to me. A better poll would be: Do you believe in God? - Yes. I am a theist and have a belief in a god. - Not the above. I am therefore an a'theist and without a belief in a god. Vote Now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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