Do you believe in God?

[Chris_Sleeps]

A lot of religious texts shouldn't be taken literally.

How do you know which bits are literal and which bits aren't?

 

Depends how you interpret religious texts.

How do you interpret?

 

Exodus 22:18 - Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

[quisquose]

Depends how you interpret religious texts.

 

You bolded the whole statement, but your statement becomes more relevant as follows:

 

"Depends how you interpret religious texts".

 

Which makes the religious texts irrelevant.

[PaliRichard]

A lot of religious texts shouldn't be taken literally.

 

Killing someone is not absolutely wrong. If you kill someone who tries to kill you it's called legitimate defense.

 

Why?

 

It is my opinion that all religious texts (apart from obvious similies and parables, which are often given as such) are meant to be taken literally.

 

In my experience the only people who don't are apologists.

[RootsBooster]

You bolded the whole statement, but your statement becomes more relevant as follows:

 

"Depends how you interpret religious texts".

 

Which makes the religious texts irrelevant.

 

This has always been my point. The Bible, taken literally, makes no sense and contradicts itself. The Bible, interpreted, can be made to mean anything that suits anyone's needs/gains/beliefs. So how can it possibly hold any weight?

[quisquose]

This has always been my point. The Bible, taken literally, makes no sense and contradicts itself. The Bible, interpreted, can be made to mean anything that suits anyone's needs/gains/beliefs. So how can it possibly hold any weight?

 

Yes, and PZ Myers latest blog article takes care of this quite nicely:

 

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/05/13/no-one-is-good-but-one/

 

We can ask ourselves what works for the majority of people: what rules and behaviors minimize conflict, maximize productivity and happiness, and produce stable, long-lasting societies that get along well with others. We do have a standard — a human standard, one that is real and measurable.

[RootsBooster]

I can't believe you actually went and did it.

 

Do I have to mention God's penchant for mass murder and sadistic punishments in the Old Testament?

Do I have to mention Moses revealing the 10 commandments (thou shalt not kill) and then killing thousands of his own people?

 

A lot of religious texts shouldn't be taken literally.

 

Killing someone is not absolutely wrong. If you kill someone who tries to kill you it's called legitimate defense.

 

Moses' people weren't trying to kill him though, were they? He flew into a rage and had them slaughtered because while he was gone they had made an ornament and worshipped it. I don't see anything in the 10 commandments about "Thou shalt not kill, unless you are really pi**ed off".

 

Sure, it says "Thou shalt not worship false idols" but does it say "or Moses gets to kill everyone" ? I think not. it says "Thou shalt NOT KILL"

[Ryedo40]

The biggest part of the bible is the foundation of the Jewish religion and nothing to do with Christianity at all![/Quote]

 

Obviously.

 

...I don't believe in that but I do believe that God spoke to prophets and gave a list of commandments to Moses.[/Quote]

 

Don't you think it's more reasonable to think that people, just like today, were capable of creating rules and regulations themselves. Don't you think it's more plausible that they, like other civilisations, simply embellished those standards with contemporary god beliefs and mythology?

 

...but their were many witness to the life of Jesus and though peoples perspectives may vary the background to his life seems pretty much consistently reported.[/Quote]

 

Please name those many witnesses. Also, just because witnesses make reports that seem consistent, doesn't necessarily mean the events they've supposedly witnessed are true. In Africa, for instance, numerous Christians have consistently claimed child witches – with supernatural powers – exist. They claim to have witnessed these powers and, as a result, have tortured or killed those children. Then there are the Christian faith healers in the US who have been debunked as frauds; yet thousands have witnessed these fraudsters “healing” the sick.

 

The eye-witness accounts in the bible aren't to be trusted. Not just because people can be mistaken, or desperate, fearful and gullible or delusional enough to believe anything; but because those stories like many other biblical stories have been shaped, added to, and invented by people with an agenda.

 

To add to the above, there is also no source from outside the bible that can verify those claimed events. This is quite odd considering Jesus was supposedly quite famous.

 

Yes the love of money is evil...Wealth maintains an heirachy of oppression that we have grown to accept as the norm but it doesn't make it right! Personally I think amassing money whilst other people are starving is definitely evil!![/Quote]

 

It's what you do – or don't do with it that could be considered evil or bad. But hoarding wealth isn't necessarily evil or bad; it can have its benefits.

 

And to add, during and before the time Jesus is alleged to have existed, there were plenty beggars around. Where beggars exist, charity exists; what Jesus allegedly taught about giving to the poor was hardly a new concept.

 

Jesus found places to stay pretty much like any so-called celebrity would these days. Not only did some genuinely believe he was the messiah and want to hear what he had to say, a lot wanted just to be able to say 'I've met him you know - he stayed in my house![/Quote]

 

None of it means he wasn't manipulating them with threats of doom and gloom.

 

Some preachers today, who use similar methods, have gained celebrity status and have gifts and invites thrown at them by the dozen. These preachers make a living off other peoples ignorance, wealth, fears, needs and suffering.

 

I don't believe he threatened anyone with doom and gloom. He simply gave them options and left choices up to them.[/Quote]

 

And the options, according to what Jesus is alleged to have said, were threats that played on peoples fears, needs and ignorance. Had Jesus existed, it's more likely he was no or little different from the preacher types I mentioned above.

[Snowbird]

Obviously.

 

 

 

Don't you think it's more reasonable to think that people, just like today, were capable of creating rules and regulations themselves. Don't you think it's more plausible that they, like other civilisations, simply embellished those standards with contemporary god beliefs and mythology?

 

 

 

Please name those many witnesses. Also, just because witnesses make reports that seem consistent, doesn't necessarily mean the events they've supposedly witnessed are true. In Africa, for instance, numerous Christians have consistently claimed child witches – with supernatural powers – exist. They claim to have witnessed these powers and, as a result, have tortured or killed those children. Then there are the Christian faith healers in the US who have been debunked as frauds; yet thousands have witnessed these fraudsters “healing” the sick.

 

The eye-witness accounts in the bible aren't to be trusted. Not just because people can be mistaken, or desperate, fearful and gullible or delusional enough to believe anything; but because those stories like many other biblical stories have been shaped, added to, and invented by people with an agenda.

 

To add to the above, there is also no source from outside the bible that can verify those claimed events. This is quite odd considering Jesus was supposedly quite famous.

 

 

 

It's what you do – or don't do with it that could be considered evil or bad. But hoarding wealth isn't necessarily evil or bad; it can have its benefits.

 

And to add, during and before the time Jesus is alleged to have existed, there were plenty beggars around. Where beggars exist, charity exists; what Jesus allegedly taught about giving to the poor was hardly a new concept.

 

 

 

None of it means he wasn't manipulating them with threats of doom and gloom.

 

Some preachers today, who use similar methods, have gained celebrity status and have gifts and invites thrown at them by the dozen. These preachers make a living off other peoples ignorance, wealth, fears, needs and suffering.

 

 

 

And the options, according to what Jesus is alleged to have said, were threats that played on peoples fears, needs and ignorance. Had Jesus existed, it's more likely he was no or little different from the preacher types I mentioned above.

 

You are entitled to your opinions .

[SHsheff]

This debate reminds me of previous debates that prompted a number (albeit a small number) of SF people to get together in a central locality (ok, a pub in town) to discuss the issue with a drink around a table in a friendly fashion.

 

I'd be pleased to attend a similar evening. The only problem I foresee is a shortage of god-defenders. Is there/are there any believers who would be willing to attend an evening of good-natured debate? I suspect that there would be several amongst us who might be up for a pint and a chat to discuss 'Is there a God?' but I'm not sure if anyone is prepared to put their faith up for discussion.

 

Any takers, on either side? Edit: or all keyboard warriers?!

[RootsBooster]

This debate reminds me of previous debates that prompted a number (albeit a small number) of SF people to get together in a central locality (ok, a pub in town) to discuss the issue with a drink around a table in a friendly fashion.

 

I'd be pleased to attend a similar evening. The only problem I foresee is a shortage of god-defenders. Is there/are there any believers who would be willing to attend an evening of good-natured debate? I suspect that there would be several amongst us who might be up for a pint and a chat to discuss 'Is there a God?' but I'm not sure if anyone is prepared to put their faith up for discussion.

 

Any takers, on either side? Edit: or all keyboard warriers?!

 

You can't really blame them, regardless of what myself or others may think, most are happy with their faith and don't want any change. As the old saying goes, "if it aint broke, don't try to fix it"