Do you believe in God?

[PaliRichard]

i think for anyone who believes in god we all, no matter what religion, believe in the same god. Apart from slight variations they all say the same thing.

 

Do they?

 

Let's go into it then, let's weigh up what they say that's the same and see if those similarities outweigh the differences. Let me stress I'm not arguing, but I want to get into the nitty gritty of your statement to see how much you've thought about it and how much is pop rhetoric.

[spilldig]

Just from what I have learned from other religions as well as christianity , they all seem to be saying much the same thing.

[PaliRichard]

i think for anyone who believes in god we all, no matter what religion, believe in the same god. Apart from slight variations they all say the same thing.

 

Just from what I have learned from other religions as well as christianity , they all seem to be saying much the same thing.

 

Which is what?

[Guest]

You don't need to get into the question of this God made that God do you? There is nothing wrong with the idea that they are independent of each other, all that leaves us with is the difficulty of who made God - but this philosophical problem is the same whet we are talki about one God or a billion Gods.

 

Your answer doesn't explain one God with different facets, nor does it give us an explanation of one God. Can you go into why you think the belief in any God is 'logical'?

 

Who made God is not a problematic question other than it's a non question- as it does not make any rational sense as by definition God would be uncaused.

[spilldig]

Which is what?

 

Seems to me basically,you shall not kill.

[flamingjimmy]

I think there is logic behind one god concept v multiple gods- if you don't see it that way, fair enough.

You have yet to attempt to put forward a coherent logical argument for that position though, so how could I possibly see it that way?

 

I gave an explanation that one would need to then have a situation of finding a cause for the cause- for the cause-for the cause ad infinitum.

That problem is no lesser or greater than it is for the concept of a single god.

 

If one god can exist without having been created, then why can't 5 gods exist without having been created?

 

An example you can use is if you're a sniper- waiting for the go ahead to fire, you have to ask the person behind you to get go ahead- but he has to ask someone higher to get the go ahead- and that person has to ask another and so on- will the sniper ever shoot? No.

 

So I see that if we are looking at a unique creator, it has to be uncaused as otherwise we have no platform to begin from.

Who said there was a unique creator? Maybe the universe was a collaboration between several uncaused creators.

 

How does that make any less sense than having one creator?

 

If you claim everything needs a creator, then so do gods and the argument goes on ad infinitum.

 

If you try to argue that everything needs a creator except for god (an incredibly spurious argument made by many religious people) then there plenty of room left for multiple gods.

 

---------- Post added 07-04-2013 at 13:44 ----------

 

Seems to me basically,you shall not kill.

 

...unless of course the person you're thinking about killing is from a different tribe to you, in which case yes, kill him, take his land, his property, and his wife and children as your slaves.

 

- The Bible.

Edited April 7, 2013 by flamingjimmy

[PaliRichard]

Who made God is not a problematic question other than it's a non question- as it does not make any rational sense as by definition God would be uncaused.

 

It's very problematic in the scenario we're discussing because you stated the problem of multiple Gods was that they would have to be created. If they are all on an equal footing (and there is absolutely no logical reason why they shouldn't be) then the difficulty is the same whether we are talking about multiple Gods or a single God. It was you that raised the issue of the creation of Gods, it would be nice if you tried levelling the same criteria to the question your own God that you do for others.

 

I notice you've still not addressed the other parts of my post too. Answering all aspects of the question(s) not just those you think you can answer would be appreciated.

 

---------- Post added 07-04-2013 at 13:53 ----------

 

Seems to me basically,you shall not kill.

 

That is not taught by all religions, varying degrees of killing are accepted in most of them.

[spilldig]

[quote=flamingjimmy;

 

...unless of course the person you're thinking about killing is from a different tribe to you, in which case yes, kill him, take his land, his property, and his wife and children as your slaves.

 

- The Bible.

I think that would be the old testament you are quoting.

[Guest]

@ PR and FJ

 

My example illustrates why there is a rational flaw in the idea that there might be creators creating creators ad infinitum...

 

We can’t have creators creating creators forever, or else, just as the sniper will never shoot, the creation will never get created.

 

But the creation is here. It exists. So we can dismiss the idea of an infinite regression of causes as being an irrational proposition.

 

If you still want to propose the idea of multiple Gods then so be it- it does not rationally make sense and my position remains as per above explanation.

 

I don't need to go in circles and I know pretty much how some atheists act by always turning the page again and again and creating complexity with endless questions.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Guest

[flamingjimmy]

I think that would be the old testament you are quoting.

 

To paraphrase Jesus: 'Still counts'.

 

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" - Jesus.

 

Just because God mellowed out in his later years when he took on human form doesn't invalidate any of the horrible crap he told people to do when he was a reckless teenager.

 

Besides, you weren't just making claims about one branch of Christianity. You were claiming that all religions say that. The old testament is the Jewish bible, you certainly can't argue it's not part of their cannon. Also, most of that stuffs in the Quran too.