Do you believe in God?

[ronthenekred]

Actually it's 4.54 Billion years old

 

The reason i asked was to get a sense of your belief system compared to actual facts.

 

The bible and its "facts" tend to change over time to fit in with contemporary thinking. Ironically modern contemporary thinking is mostly based on science..like the Earth isn't flat etc..

[flamingjimmy]

What has that quote from Christopher Hitchens have to do with that earlier comment you made,and the question I asked?

It highlights the absurdity of the basic premises of Judaism and its divergences Christianity and Islam.

 

You have to believe, as an abrahamic monotheist, that for over 95% of the existence of humanity God did nothing while we died short miserable lives in fear.

 

Then finally, a few thousand years ago he decided to intervene, and give them the bible. Only not for everyone, only in one tiny little corner of the middle east where most people were illiterate, to a single barbaric tribe, and that all subsequent revelations would be in the same primitive and savage place.

 

So what's more likely, that there is a god and he actually did the above, or that that same primitive savage tribe wrote the damned book themselves?

I'm a Christian,i have a only a vague knowledge of Hinduism.

One thing I do know is that their beliefs are as diverse as Christians and many of them worship Jesus as a great prophet,believing that the very first Christian apostles were telling the truth.

Do you believe in the existence of those apostles Peter & Paul for instance?

...ish, I would say. For the sake of this argument I'll go with yes. To clarify my position.

 

Yeah there probably were a couple of guys called Paul and Peter who were influential in the early growth of the Jewish sect that came to be known as Christianity.

 

What's your point? What are you going to do with this grand concession you've got out of me?

Edited April 7, 2013 by flamingjimmy

[Eater Sundae]

Smarter people then you and I have believed it.

 

You appear to have a firm belief in what you state, can you prove it?

 

 

I think its around a billion years old, why do you ask?

 

Plenty of people believe, but their belief is not based on evidence, simply because there isn't any evidence.

 

Their belief is a matter of faith, which is fair enough. However, to claim that there is evidence is either a mistake or just dishonesty.

[janie48]

It highlights the absurdity of the basic premises of Judaism and its divergences Christianity and Islam.

 

You have to believe, as an abrahamic monotheist, that for over 95% of the existence of humanity God did nothing while we died short miserable lives in fear.

 

Then finally, a few thousand years ago he decided to intervene, and give them the bible. Only not for everyone, only in one tiny little corner of the middle east where most people were illiterate, to a single barbaric tribe, and that all subsequent revelations would be in the same primitive and savage place.

 

So what's more likely, that there is a god and he actually did the above, or that that same primitive savage tribe wrote the damned book themselves?

...ish, I would say. For the sake of this argument I'll go with yes. To clarify my position.

 

Yeah there probably were a couple of guys called Paul and Peter who were influential in the early growth of the Jewish sect that came to be known as Christianity.

 

What's your point? What are you going to do with this grand concession you've got out of me?

You may think its absurd I don't.

Apart from that Jewish sect the earliest Christiians communities were Arabs some of their descendands remain in the Middle East and have remained faithfull to the faith. Some live in Syria,i don't expect they are all illiterate now are they?

 

I don't believe everything written in the bible is gospel,but out of the sixty six books contained in it,i'm perfectly willing to accept that they are not all fictitious made up stories full of lies and deceit.If they had been i'm certain those very first Christians wouldn't have risked their lives and put themselves through persecution and torture often ending as it did in execution.So that's one of the reasons I believe in spite of what much of Roman power and exploitation did later.

And if that makes me sound silly,then so be it.

 

---------- Post added 07-04-2013 at 20:45 ----------

 

Plenty of people believe, but their belief is not based on evidence, simply because there isn't any evidence.

 

Their belief is a matter of faith, which is fair enough. However, to claim that there is evidence is either a mistake or just dishonesty.

 

Well faith is what my belief is mainly based on.

You are entitled to think all people of faith are blind and dishonest if you wish, i don't

I'm not exactly what some would consider to be the best example of what a Christian should be, but i'm not prepared to listen to insult and derision of belief without expressing a view. In that sense i'm committed enough to what I believe to comment about it, and that's because it means something to me, its as simple as that.

[flamingjimmy]

You may think its absurd I don't.

Apart from that Jewish sect the earliest Christiians communities were Arabs some of their descendands remain in the Middle East and have remained faithfull to the faith. Some live in Syria,i don't expect they are all illiterate now are they?

You've completely failed to understand, or possibly chosen to completely ignore my point. The literacy of modern day Syria has absolutely no bearing at all on what I was saying, the point is at the time god chose to intervene, there were places in the world with real civilisation where this knowledge could have been disseminated much more efficiently and he wouldn't have had to rely on a small ragtag band of underdogs to spread the religion. Just imagine if the revelations had been given to a literate people. Thousands of copies could have quickly been made, and a canon instantly established, with the revelation in its original untarnished (except for that first editor I suppose) form.

 

No instead he gives it to a savage barely literate tribe in the middle east and then all subsequent revelations in the same place pretty much and we get this mishmash of books compiled decades and centuries later, and its no longer clear which parts were even written by whom in some cases, and some of the different parts contradict each other, it's just a mess.

 

What a fantastic plan eh? Yeah god did a fantastic job giving us his message, way to go.

 

I don't believe everything written in the bible is gospel,but out of the sixty six books contained in it,i'm perfectly willing to accept that they are not all fictitious made up stories full of lies and deceit.If they had been i'm certain those very first Christians wouldn't have risked their lives and put themselves through persecution and torture often ending as it did in execution.So that's one of the reasons I believe in spite of what much of Roman power and exploitation did later.

And if that makes me sound silly,then so be it.

People risk their lives and subject themselves to persecution for things that aren't true all the time, that's evidence of nothing.

[Eater Sundae]

You may think its absurd I don't.

Apart from that Jewish sect the earliest Christiians communities were Arabs some of their descendands remain in the Middle East and have remained faithfull to the faith. Some live in Syria,i don't expect they are all illiterate now are they?

 

I don't believe everything written in the bible is gospel,but out of the sixty six books contained in it,i'm perfectly willing to accept that they are not all fictitious made up stories full of lies and deceit.If they had been i'm certain those very first Christians wouldn't have risked their lives and put themselves through persecution and torture often ending as it did in execution.So that's one of the reasons I believe in spite of what much of Roman power and exploitation did later.

And if that makes me sound silly,then so be it.

 

---------- Post added 07-04-2013 at 20:45 ----------

 

 

Well faith is what my belief is mainly based on.

You are entitled to think all people of faith are blind and dishonest if you wish, i don't

I'm not exactly what some would consider to be the best example of what a Christian should be, but i'm not prepared to listen to insult and derision of belief without expressing a view. In that sense i'm committed enough to what I believe to comment about it, and that's because it means something to me, its as simple as that.

 

You are being disingenuous in accusing me of thinking that "all people of faith are blind and dishonest". My comment concerning dishonesty was not about faith, it was specifically about claims of EVIDENCE to justify belief. There is none. Those who claim otherwise are still mistaken or dishonest.

[janie48]

You've completely failed to understand, or possibly chosen to completely ignore my point. The literacy of modern day Syria has absolutely no bearing at all on what I was saying, the point is at the time god chose to intervene, there were places in the world with real civilisation where this knowledge could have been disseminated much more efficiently and he wouldn't have had to rely on a small ragtag band of underdogs to spread the religion. Just imagine if the revelations had been given to a literate people. Thousands of copies could have quickly been made, and a canon instantly established, with the revelation in its original untarnished (except for that first editor I suppose) form.

 

No instead he gives it to a savage barely literate tribe in the middle east and then all subsequent revelations in the same place pretty much and we get this mishmash of books compiled decades and centuries later, and its no longer clear which parts were even written by whom in some cases, and some of the different parts contradict each other, it's just a mess.

 

What a fantastic plan eh? Yeah god did a fantastic job giving us his message, way to go.

 

People risk their lives and subject themselves to persecution for things that aren't true all the time, that's evidence of nothing.

 

So those first Christians were illiterate and spread the word travelling to many parts of the world to do so, and if even if they were, all the more remarkable that they managed to convert the more scholarly. They must have been doing something right, since they were likely to have been looked down on with scorn and contempt for their lack of education.

I think you are probably doing those people from the earliest centuries AD an injustice by considering them too gullible and primitive to never question anything they were told.

 

I introduced the point about Syria because I wanted to.

[SqueakyPete]

Most people believe in it because they had it drilled into their head as a child,either through parents or school assemblies.Kids are not given the choice,they get spoon fed what their parents believe in.

I would prefer my kids to believe in science,rather than silly stories from the bible that even the most gullible of people should be laughing at.

[janie48]

You are being disingenuous in accusing me of thinking that "all people of faith are blind and dishonest". My comment concerning dishonesty was not about faith, it was specifically about claims of EVIDENCE to justify belief. There is none. Those who claim otherwise are still mistaken or dishonest.

Sorry for appearing disingenuous. I accept your explanation.

Its just that some of you atheists are always stating you don't believe because there is no evidence, there never was in the evidence you want provided,and never will be.

I'm fully aware that short of seeing a miracle you will never believe,once you have made your mind up not to.

[Lockjaw]

I don't believe everything written in the bible is gospel

 

It isn't - just the first four books of the so-called "New Testament"

 

Glad to have been of service.