Do you believe in God?

[janie48]

It's an opinion though, janie. My opinion. Feel free to show me why I'm wrong. That's what we're here for isn't it?

 

On your general point, that may be how you perceive your position and actions but, as an observer, all I see is someone quite happy to engage with most posters until a tricky question is asked or point is made, when she then begins with the accusations and dodges.

 

Again, I'm not trying to insult you and I am genuinely sorry it comes across that way but those are my honest observations. I'm still after that holy grail of understanding exactly why people believe in this stuff and have this "faith".

I've tried to explain to you before about reasons for faith and have gone into quite a lot of detail in various ways.

I've also acknowledged limitations and expressed that i haven't got all the answers, there isn't much more I can add to that.I realise now that failing to provide answers to satisfy curiosity has been a mistake.

Finally I will just share this, my faith to so many may seem ridiculous and irrational and I do understand why some would think that, but that doesn't matter because to me it is real, and stronger at present then its ever been in the past.

[Obelix]

What I see in both these posts is the example of a side of atheism I sincerely hope isn't a reflection of the majority.

In fact judging from the last few days and comparing the latter part of this thread with the earlier time it was active, I don't think it is.

 

Yet you make the assertion that you obviously have an issue, but you fail to quantify what your issue is, or why you feel that way. You are exhibiting nothing more than synthetic anger and outrage, in lieu of actually making a defence of your position as far as I can tell.

 

The impression that I get from your comments is that you clearly feel that atheists are less of a person than say a Christian. Is this the case?

[janie48]

 

I think Janie is honest, she doesn't always know the ins and outs, but she does always acknowledge when she realises she's wrong.My personal opinion is that she sometimes grabs the wrong end of the stick, and at times mistakes honest questions for insults, but I don't think she avoids evidence because it is a threat to her faith - there are many, many Theists on this forum that do, but I really don't think she is one of them.

I don't deny that I may get hold of the wrong end of the stick sometimes Richard, but I do rely on my intuition about people a great deal from what they say and how it is said, and on most occasions intuitive intuition has guided me well.

Thankyou for those comments

[Lockjaw]

I've tried to explain to you before about reasons for faith and have gone into quite a lot of detail in various ways.

I've also acknowledged limitations and expressed that i haven't got all the answers, there isn't much more I can add to that.I realise now that failing to provide answers to satisfy curiosity has been a mistake.

Finally I will just share this, my faith to so many may seem ridiculous and irrational and I do understand why some would think that, but that doesn't matter because to me it is real, and stronger at present then its ever been in the past.

 

OK, I respect all that, cheers.

 

On your last point, though: if you understand why others may find your faith irrational, that must mean you recognise the irrationality (perceived by others). That's good.

 

If, however, that does not reduce the strength of your faith then you must consider that those irrationalities don't exist, otherwise you would be accepting that you are being irrational. Are you with me? So, how does your faith render those perceived irrationalities to be no such thing?

[flamingjimmy]

I'm not starting with the universal set, but the set of sentient beings in the multi/universe. - which I hope you'll agree is a finite and bounded set. So in your example one subset contains the number 1, another 1000 and 2-998 in the third set.

Yes, and as I point out your argument consists of assuming that everything is in the second set, this is not a valid assumption.

 

Are you asserting that it is impossible that there are beings at large in the meta/universe whose complexity and capacities exceed our own, by the same order of magnitude as ours exceed those of simple unicellular life, and if so, on what basis?

 

No, I'm not, I'm asserting that there is absolutely no reason to think that there are such beings. Personally I'm sceptical as to the existence of such beings anyway, sounds like a bad star trek episode (y'know where one of the characters 'evolves' into some sort of 'pure energy' form and then floats away through the walls or something equally silly).

 

You are putting probability values on things that you cannot possibly know.

 

Right now, we as a species simply do not have enough information to be able to say it's 'highly likely' that life exists on other planets, let alone that that there is life out there that is to us as we are to single celled organisms. You can't even say it's more likely than the alternative, all you can say is that you've got a hunch that that's the case.

[janie48]

OK, I respect all that, cheers.

 

On your last point, though: if you understand why others may find your faith irrational, that must mean you recognise the irrationality (perceived by others). That's good.

 

If, however, that does not reduce the strength of your faith then you must consider that those irrationalities don't exist, otherwise you would be accepting that you are being irrational. Are you with me? So, how does your faith render those perceived irrationalities to be no such thing?

I'm with you to a point yes. Perhaps a better way of explaining that position, would be what I once previously referred to. You can probably only have insight into what others perceive to be irrational if you've been there even if it may have only been for a very brief period, though it is possible to have some understanding and insight into why some people have certain thoughts on the subject of belief, especially if you are aware of their personal experiences and their life situations. It would be easier to explain if I presented examples, but that wouldn't be appropriate.

[erebus]

Why ask if we believe in GOD or Gods, WE ARE GODS, and choose what will live and what will die, depending on where the resources lay buried. We are changing the very weather, although officially still in a dam ice age, we assist the speeding up of the ice sheets melting.

 

We move mountains, create lakes, move rivers, manipulate nature, which is just the beginning. Every day I watch TV or listen to the radio, thus paying homage to the greatness of our superior technology. Billions worship TV for hours a day, as their minds are removed from their bodies for a time, the new Yoga, meditation for the masses, where instead of emptying their minds fill it full of junk.

 

We are the GOD's, we factory farm inferior species, enjoying their demise, their worthless lives created just for our enjoyment.

 

The trouble is we jut do not realise what a force humanity is, nature is our plaything, we are the ultimate parasites feeding uncontrollably on whatever takes our fancy.

 

So start to worship yourselves, and stop putting yourself down to false gods that have done nothing, made nothing, created nothing, and the whole concept is just a few thousand years old anyway, and we have a 6 million year history.

 

Religion is just a way for parasites to feed off the hopeful, the miserable, the self obsessed, and they eat well while many of their so called followers starve. Religion pretends to be in touch with the gods, while fooling you all you are guilty, imperfect, as they live off your hopes and dreams.

[PaliRichard]

Why ask if we believe in GOD or Gods, WE ARE GODS, and choose what will live and what will die, depending on where the resources lay buried. We are changing the very weather, although officially still in a dam ice age, we assist the speeding up of the ice sheets melting.

 

We move mountains, create lakes, move rivers, manipulate nature, which is just the beginning. Every day I watch TV or listen to the radio, thus paying homage to the greatness of our superior technology. Billions worship TV for hours a day, as their minds are removed from their bodies for a time, the new Yoga, meditation for the masses, where instead of emptying their minds fill it full of junk.

 

We are the GOD's, we factory farm inferior species, enjoying their demise, their worthless lives created just for our enjoyment.

 

The trouble is we jut do not realise what a force humanity is, nature is our plaything, we are the ultimate parasites feeding uncontrollably on whatever takes our fancy.

 

So start to worship yourselves, and stop putting yourself down to false gods that have done nothing, made nothing, created nothing, and the whole concept is just a few thousand years old anyway, and we have a 6 million year history.

 

Religion is just a way for parasites to feed off the hopeful, the miserable, the self obsessed, and they eat well while many of their so called followers starve. Religion pretends to be in touch with the gods, while fooling you all you are guilty, imperfect, as they live off your hopes and dreams.

 

No, human beings do that, religion is just used as one excuse of many to facilitate it.

[spilldig]

Now come on don't spoil it.

 

Compared to some Theists on here you are one of the more honest ones but this smacks slightly of avoidance tactic.

 

You said you thought all religions teach the same thing, I asked you to expand.

 

You responded by saying 'you shall not kill'.

 

I put to you this was not taught by most religions to which you did not respond.

 

So rather than give one line answers that don't actually marry with the evidence lets go into exactly why you think religions all teach the same thing - by into it I mean give examples from religious texts in context of the religious teaching.

 

Like I said I don't necessarily disagree wholeheartedly with your idea, I just want to know if you actually think that or whether you've read a book or two that says 'there are many rooms in God's house' or something similar which you've latched onto.

 

I would also like to you to respond to my statement that most religions don't teach you shall not kill.

 

Now if you want your credibility (with me) to remain in tact I request that you answer the points/questions put to you, otherwise I will have to conclude that you are no more honest than the likes of borderline who blatantly avoids answering questions because he knows, deep down, that he is living a lie.

I have never heard of a religion that encourages killing.I'm not saying that your wrong,but I would not want to have anything to do with a religion like that anyway. By the way i am not on 24/7 Richard so it may sometimes take some time to get back to a post.

[PaliRichard]

I have never heard of a religion that encourages killing.I'm not saying that your wrong,but I would not want to have anything to do with a religion like that anyway. By the way i am not on 24/7 Richard so it may sometimes take some time to get back to a post.

 

Not as much time it seems as it takes you to respond to a direct question with an equally direct answer.

 

I never said religions encourage killing, I said most don't teach you shall not kill.

 

Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Taoism and Islam all teach it is ok to take a life in specific circumstances - none of these religions say you shouldn't kill as a blanket, outright statement with no exceptions. This is far different to encouraging killing.

 

Now if we can return to what I asked you. What is it that is the same that religions teach? Please use contextual supporting evidence from the appropriate text, and please provide relevant contextual sources of which religions teach you shall not kill.