Titanic, 100 years today

[HeadingNorth]

I was shocked to read that White Star got most of their profit from third class passengers and the mail that was carried.

 

If true, it is an even bigger scandal that third class passengers were kept away from the lifeboats.

 

They were not "kept away from the lifeboats."

 

The order to abandon ship wasn't given until far too late, which is a scandal if you like, but all this rubbish about not allowing third class people to escape has been circulating for far too long.

[Anna B]

Very sad 1500 people died, But why are we going on about this particular sinking 100 years after it happened? There have been numerous wars, a flu epidemic that wiped out millions, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, what is so special about Titanic?

 

Why do we revel in his sentimentality?

 

I think we need to be reminded of this disaster.

 

It is a sobering reminder of man's belief in his own overarching ego.

 

This was an unsinkable ship on its maiden voyage.

 

The Biggest this, Grandest that, most expensive... and so on. Yet everything that could go wrong went wrong and it all ended up at the bottom of the Ocean.

 

Not to forget the people of course, from all classes, it really was a Greek tragedy.

 

Even though it happened it was unbelievable.

 

Never tempt fate....

[discodown]

I think we need to be reminded of this disaster.

 

It is a sobering reminder of man's belief in his own overarching ego.

 

This was an unsinkable ship on its maiden voyage.

 

The Biggest this, Grandest that, most expensive... and so on. Yet everything that could go wrong went wrong and it all ended up at the bottom of the Ocean.

 

Not to forget the people of course, from all classes, it really was a Greek tragedy.

 

Even though it happened it was unbelievable.

 

Never tempt fate....

Reminded yes. Have is romanticized and celebrated and get sentimental about it no

[HeadingNorth]

I think we need to be reminded of this disaster.

 

It is a sobering reminder of man's belief in his own overarching ego.

 

This was an unsinkable ship on its maiden voyage.

 

The Biggest this, Grandest that, most expensive... and so on.

 

Except that ... it wasn't the grandest, it was far from the most expensive, and nobody described it as "unsinkable" until after it sank.

 

It also wasn't going particularly fast - another long-standing myth about the Titanic is that it hit the iceberg because the Captain was under pressure to set the record for an Atlantic crossing, which is nonsense. Even at full speed for the entire voyage the Titanic was flatly incapable of breaking the then record time.

[Harleyman]

Since that did not happen, what was shameful about it?

 

The gates to first class were locked to steerage passengers. Depending on which version you believe from the two Titanic movies that were made either the lock was broken or the steerage passengers overcame the deck steward and forced their way through first class to the boat deck.

 

 

But happen it did . Some did manage to get a place on a lifeboat but most did not

 

The refusal beforehand to unlock the gates by some nitwit of a steward was the shameful part

[HeadingNorth]

The gates to first class were locked to steerage passengers. Depending on which version you believe from the two Titanic movies that were made either the lock was broken or the steerage passengers overcame the deck steward and forced their way through first class to the boat deck.

 

I prefer to believe the inquest, at which steerage passengers who had survived, all pointed out that this is utter garbage. The gates were unlocked, immediately upon the order to abandon ship being given.

 

The refusal beforehand to unlock the gates by some nitwit of a steward was the shameful part

 

That refusal comes at the hands of the United States Government, not stewards. Steerage passengers, being immigrants to the USA, were required under US law to be kept contained and away from all the other passengers, and to disembark at Ellis Island before the ship arrived in New York. The law was over-ridden once the order to abandon ship came down, since the stewards' chief concern was for the survival of their passengers and not the obeyance of US laws.

 

 

At the time, none of this ever got reported in the US press, because W.R. Hearst had declared the owner of White Star to be one of his mortal enemies and spent the next five years repeating one libel after another to make said owner out to be the chief villain of the piece; but there's really no excuse for anyone to still believe it.

[SUPERDREAM]

Only on Sheffield Forum can the experts come out. This ship sank 100 years ago, and not one single person aboard/who built/sold tickets, is alive today. If this information is true, which I suspect it is, how on earth can its sinking be debated accurately, especially by some of the numpties on here?

 

The families of those who perished are still alive today, and each has their own story to tell. Its not for us to decide who was responsible as we can never EVER know, due to the massive time lapse. If I had a relative who was in service on the Titanic, and I read some of the finger pointing comments, I would feel a bit miffed. Good old S/F. Experts on everything, (as long as Google exists)

[HeadingNorth]

Its not for us to decide who was responsible as we can never EVER know, due to the massive time lapse.

 

You could read the inquest reports. Those were written at the time, not a century later.

[Anarchon]

Except that ... it wasn't the grandest, it was far from the most expensive, and nobody described it as "unsinkable" until after it sank.

 

It also wasn't going particularly fast - another long-standing myth about the Titanic is that it hit the iceberg because the Captain was under pressure to set the record for an Atlantic crossing, which is nonsense. Even at full speed for the entire voyage the Titanic was flatly incapable of breaking the then record time.

 

The whole point of White Star Line commissioning the Olympic class ships was to compete directly with the Cunard trans-atlantic passenger ships of the day - in particular the Lusitania and Mauretania. However, instead of trying to compete in terms of speed, White Star opted for luxury. Hence, the Olympic and Titanic were some of the most expensive ships ever built at that time. Titanic alone cost over £7.5 million pounds in those days (over £400 million today). By comparison, both the Lusitania and Mauretania (which held the then Blue Riband) cost £2.7 million pounds between them. I would therefore argue that in 1912, both RMS Olympic and RMS Titanic were the grandest ships afloat. In addition, the Titanic was the largest ship afloat at the time.

 

I'm not sure where you get the idea from that the Titanic wasn't going particularly fast. The Titanic was sailing at close to it's maximum rated speed of around 22 knots in the hours and days prior to the collision. By comparison, the RMS Mauretania, which won the Blue Riband in 1907 and held it for 22 years, had a maximum rated speed of around 24 knots.

[Harleyman]

I prefer to believe the inquest, at which steerage passengers who had survived, all pointed out that this is utter garbage. The gates were unlocked, immediately upon the order to abandon ship being given.

 

 

 

That refusal comes at the hands of the United States Government, not stewards. Steerage passengers, being immigrants to the USA, were required under US law to be kept contained and away from all the other passengers, and to disembark at Ellis Island before the ship arrived in New York. The law was over-ridden once the order to abandon ship came down, since the stewards' chief concern was for the survival of their passengers and not the obeyance of US laws.

 

 

At the time, none of this ever got reported in the US press, because W.R. Hearst had declared the owner of White Star to be one of his mortal enemies and spent the next five years repeating one libel after another to make said owner out to be the chief villain of the piece; but there's really no excuse for anyone to still believe it.

 

So why was this particular bit shown in both the 1958 version "A night to remember" and the more recent version made in the early 90s?

 

According to the 1958 version the order to abandon ship was given at a time when the vessel was close to going down and by then most of the lifeboats had already been loaded and had left the ship This then leaves open the question as to why the gate was not unlocked as soon as it was realized by the ship's designer who was on board and captain Smith that the ship was doomed not all that long after it struck the iceberg?

There was a time lapse of roughly a little under three hours between hitting the iceberg and the ships final descent.

 

I'm inclined to believe that since there were not enough lifeboats for every passenger the delay in voluntairily unlocking the gate (if as you claim that was true) was to ensure that the women and kids in first and second class all got places in the boats.