USA Vs UK.. a war in 2012, who would win?

[Glamrocker]

The German-American Bunds were very strong and there was a substantial feeling of empathy for Mussolini by Italian-Americans.

Aside form that the overwhelming sentiment wasi Isolationist. No one but an idiot who was politically suicidal would have declared war against Germany in 1939. Roosevelt realized that sooner or later the US would have to become involved anyway but in 1939 he had no power to do it

neither was the US prepared militarily. There were plenty of fighter aircraft, mostly the P-40 which were shipped via Canada to England to avioid violating neutrality laws.

 

One somewhat comical way to get around it was for an American pilot to fly his P-40 smack up to the Canadian border and park it in front of the International border line. The Canadians would then attach a rope to the aircraft and pull it across the line into Canada that way avoiding accusations that the Americans were flying them into Canada and aiding a country at war. Crazy but it worked.

 

The Japanese-Americans on the other hand were rarely supportive of Japan but they were rounded up and interred in camps far away from the Pacific coast which was later widely condemned.

 

The Japanes-American soldiers were among the best. The 442 Regimental Combat Team, motto "Go for Broke" won the highest number of decorations of any American military unit fighting in Europe

Purple hearts ?

[Harleyman]

the United States achieved none of their war aims and Britain couldn't really have cared less about it, being much more involved at the time in other theaters, especially in western Europe. You could possibly make a case for Canada being the winner, even though it wasn't strictly speaking even a belligerent but even that is a bit dubious. One thing is for sure about the war of 1812. It's not who won, but who lost. And it was the Indians that lost.

 

Before Independence the British government forbade the colonists to expand westwards, instead they made a treaty guaranteeing the Indians that no settlemets would ever encroach on their land. That was one of the gripes the colonists had against the British.

But no one ever foresaw the huge population explosion that came about later though massive immigration from Europe. Expansion westwards was bound to happen. Completely inevitable

 

The worst day an Indian ever had was the day Columbus first sighted the New World

[Rampent]

Before Independence the British government forbade the colonists to expand westwards, instead they made a treaty guaranteeing the Indians that no settlemets would ever encroach on their land. That was one of the gripes the colonists had against the British.

But no one ever foresaw the huge population explosion that came about later though massive immigration from Europe. Expansion westwards was bound to happen. Completely inevitable

 

The worst day an Indian ever had was the day Columbus first sighted the New World

 

Why can't we send our Kyle morons V your Springer morons. Jobs a good 'un.

[Rampent]

Purple hearts ?

 

Liked The Chords more

[xenia]

Germany and the Kaiser werent the bad men. The agro between Germany and Britain was the threat that the British government saw in the rise of Germany and it's building up a navy that would rival the Royal Navy. The Kaiser in fact wanted a grand alliamce with Britain but Britain fixated with the threat of a major rival decided instead to ally with France it's historical enemy.

It was also a war of inter European rivallries started by old men with big moustaches and dressed in comic opera uniforms. There was nothing glorious in it, a wholesale slaughter of Europe's best young men in a senselless cause that achieved nothing except to put Europe back half a century and the Americans wanted nothing to do with it.

The sinking of American ships by German U-boats and the torpedoing of the Lusitania killing many American passengers was one reason America entered.

 

They sent over 2 million soldiers to France which placed the Germans in the impossible situation of being hopelessly outnumbered plus the fact that they were starving to death

 

 

As for WW2 the US army had a force of around 14o,000 at the start with tanks that were obsolete.

Three years later they were able to carry out Operation Torch in North Africa and supply the European theater as well as the Pacific theater with men and all the equipment to fight a war.

 

It's a fallacy to think that in 1939 America was like the Commonwealth countries. Much of the population were from countries other than Britain and many had no love for the countries they had left in Europe so small wonder that there was little sentiment to join another European war at that time especially since the senseless slaughter of WW1

 

Substantially correct, it is difficult from the perspective of 2012 to understand the world in 1914 and 1939. I am sure you would agree that judging by the many books written that take different views on the start of the 1st World war it is difficult on this forum to discuss and argue that point, I would take issue on the actions of Germany under the Kaiser, he appears to have envied and hated the British, his mother was British and he hated her. He clearly wished to emulate and replace the British as the leading naval power. I do agree that "the men in moustaches" were the problem.

 

I hope you will not take my earlier posts that critiscise the US as in any way disrespecting the sacrifices that the US servicemen made in both wars. I have man reservations as to US government policy. I have none about the bravery and sacrifice of its service personnel.

[Sierra]

Britain would win - we have Danger Mouse:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/25/Danger-mouse-fair-use.jpg

 

"Shush Penfold!"

 

You know, I think they showed Danger Mouse over here.

 

I love cartoon mice. Like Pinky and the Brain. So cute.

[Harleyman]

Substantially correct, it is difficult from the perspective of 2012 to understand the world in 1914 and 1939. I am sure you would agree that judging by the many books written that take different views on the start of the 1st World war it is difficult on this forum to discuss and argue that point, I would take issue on the actions of Germany under the Kaiser, he appears to have envied and hated the British, his mother was British and he hated her. He clearly wished to emulate and replace the British as the leading naval power. I do agree that "the men in moustaches" were the problem.

 

I hope you will not take my earlier posts that critiscise the US as in any way disrespecting the sacrifices that the US servicemen made in both wars. I have man reservations as to US government policy. I have none about the bravery and sacrifice of its service personnel.

 

I've just finished a book called "The world undone - the story of the Great War" I still read books...... not a fan of YouTube unless I like to play a tune or two now and then.

 

The Kaiser was not what is popularly believed to be the instigator of the war.

His mother was a daughter of Queen Victoria and she wanted her son, the Kaiser brought up in the traditions of the British way as she had little respect for the German court and culture which she thought somewaht backward.

The Prussian Junker faction also played a part in his upbringing so he was a person caught between two ways of life and thought.

 

The start of the war could be traced to powerful factions among the Hapsburgs who ruled the Austro-Hungarian Empire. They had for years seen the Serbian ethnic groups as a threat to their existence and after the assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo became determined to invade Serbia and crush the nationalists.

 

Then there was Russia which supported the Serbians and also strongly allied to France which was still simmering with resentment over the loss of Alsace-Lorriane and their humilitaing defeat by the Germans over four decades earlier.

 

Britain and France had long been uneasy over Germany's rise as a potentially powerful European power on a level with their own and when the Kaiser started to build his navy that only increased the feelings in both countries.

Britain ruled the oceans and didn't take kindly to any new arrivals which might challenge that power

 

The Kaiser had never wanted a war with Britain or France but he did nothing to stop the Austro-Hungarians from attacking Serbia and when they did he was obliged to ally himself with them.

 

Anyway that's basically what it was all about. As for America it saw the conflict as a struggle for power between corrupt despotic European countries led by equally corrupt governments and wanted nothing to do with it until it's ships started to be sunk by German U-boats intent on stopping cross Atlantic trade between it and Britain as well as France

 

At the end British casualties numbered around 780,000, German, French and Russian in the region of 1.5 million or more each and American about 100,000.

 

There was a tremendous amount of propaganda amd untruths circulated around by all factions in that war. The populations in all the countries were lied to on a regular basis including what a bad guy the Kaiser was. He was really a pathetic figure completely under the influence of his military leaders and later on the real warmonger, General Ludendorff who despite knowing that the war was lost kept sacrificng his troops by the thousands in futile offensives that gained nothing and cost a great deal of suffering to the German population along with it

 

BTW no offence taken. I enjoy a good debate and thanks for that.

[cressida]

You know, I think they showed Danger Mouse over here.

 

I love cartoon mice. Like Pinky and the Brain. So cute.

 

So that's where those names came from, I had a couple of posters come on a forum I am on called Pinky and Brain who wanted to feed me cherries - the very idea:o;)

[Harleyman]

We did PURCHASE from the yanks, as part of the deal we gave them bases all over the world from which, after the war, they have proceeded in their arrogance, to upset virtually everyone they have come into contact with.

 

What is your take on Radar and Enigma which we provided to them for free.

 

Soldiers are free. Many of them die in foreign wars and all it costs the countries they died in is six feet of earth

[xenia]

Soldiers are free. Many of them die in foreign wars and all it costs the countries they died in is six feet of earth

 

Very true, no matter which country they serve. Some years ago I went with a party to the allied war graves in France, we went to vist the British and Commonwealth sections. On the way we passed the German graveyard.

 

My reaction was a mixture of sadness and disgust, sadness at the loss of brave men of all nations, disgust at those you call the "moustached"men who sent these poor lads to thier destruction.

 

I suppose in the UK we still tend to see th Kaiser as the "baddie", trying to be objective, you are probably right in your character assesment.