USA Vs UK.. a war in 2012, who would win?

[Harleyman]

]I have always believed that the flow of movement from the western desert through Siciliy and Italy was the right way to go.We had in the 8th [/b]Army a superb and well seasoned battle force at the right time up to DDay' date=' which took a lot of pressure off the Russians so they could succeed in Stalingrad and on.[/quote']

 

Churchill certainly thought so too. The problem with Italy is that it's a difficult country to fight a war in due to it's mountainous geography and because of that the Germans were able to set up strong lines of defence which were hard to break through. Monte Cassino was an example. Progress during the Italy campaign was slow, it drew away manpower and equipment needed for the Normandy campaign and there was still fighting in Italy at the time of Germany's surrender in May 1945.

 

It may have relieved pressure on the Russians but the Normandy campaign was by far the main factor.

[players]

I agree the Philippines didn't do badly out of the United States.

 

 

 

Like many of their officers, American troops also showed incredible callousness toward the Philippine civilian population. A man named Clarence Clowe described the situation as follows in a letter he wrote to Senator Hoar. The methods employed by American troops against civilians in an effort to find insurgent "arms and ammunition" include torture, beating, and outright killing.

 

At any time I am liable to be called upon to go out and bind and gag helpless prisoners, to strike them in the face, to knock them down when so bound, to bear them away from wife and children, at their very door, who are shrieking pitifully the while, or kneeling and kissing the hands of our officers, imploring mercy from those who seem not to know what it is, and then, with a crowd of soldiers, hold our helpless victim head downward in a tub of water in his own yard, or bind him hand and foot, attaching ropes to head and feet, and then lowering him into the depths of a well of water till life is well-nigh choked out, and the bitterness of a death is tasted, and our poor, gasping victims ask us for the poor boon of being finished off, in mercy to themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

The overall cost in human lives of American actions in the Philippines was horrific.

 

One scholar has concluded concerning the American occupation that

 

"In the fifteen years that followed the defeat of the Spanish in Manila Bay in 1898, more Filipinos were killed by U.S. forces than by the Spanish in 300 years of colonization. Over 1.5 million died out of a total population of 6 million."

 

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/war.crimes/US/U.S.Philippines.htm

[buck]

The overall cost in human lives of American actions in the Philippines was horrific.

 

One scholar has concluded concerning the American occupation that

 

"In the fifteen years that followed the defeat of the Spanish in Manila Bay in 1898, more Filipinos were killed by U.S. forces than by the Spanish in 300 years of colonization. Over 1.5 million died out of a total population of 6 million."

 

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/war.crimes/US/U.S.Philippines.htm

While not in any way condoning the actions of Americans in Luzon at the end of he 19th century, I must point out that there were many atrocities committed by colonial powers prior, during, and following these events, some by the hands of british soldiers. You did not trouble to investigate them, only the ones committed buy those nefarious Yanks. The world had a long way to go before it finally realized that all people of whatever color are human beings, entitled to respect and protection. It still has not fully learned to this day, and to harp on something that happened over a hundred year ago serves no purpose whatever.

[players]

American soldiers are often poorly trained, incompetent and cowardly. They have a history of atrocities against civilians that continues to this day, and the idea that the Philippines should be grateful for having a quarter of their population slaughtered is asinine.

[Harleyman]

American soldiers are often poorly trained, incompetent and cowardly. They have a history of atrocities against civilians that continues to this day, and the idea that the Philippines should be grateful for having a quarter of their population slaughtered is asinine.

 

That's an unwarranted piece of arrogance. The same attitude prevailed among British officers when the Americans first entered the war in 1942 and got a beating at the Kasserine Pass in North Africa by the remnants of Rommel's crack Afrika Korps.

"Our Italians: the British officers disparingely referred to the Americans.

 

The Americans however had the ability to learn quickly ftom their earlier defeats. There was nothing poorly trained or cowardly about the soldiers who fought the Japanese, a ruthless no quarter given enemy, across the Pacific for three years, nor the Paras who landed in Normandy the night before D-Day, those who fought their way off the worst beach to land on, Omaha, Pattons army which advanced rapidly across France after D-Day, the men of the 101st Screaming Eagles who fought off the German panzers at Bastogne.

 

The huge losses among aircrew of the 8th Air Force who flew daylight bombing raids from England for 2-1/2 yeras

 

You ought to give yourself a bit of an education and take a trip across to Normandy and visit the American cemetery above Omaha Beach and tell the 10,000 troops buried there that they were poorly trained and cowardly

[players]

You ought to go to The Philippines and apologise for your war crimes.

[Harleyman]

You ought to go to The Philippines and apologise for your war crimes.

 

Dont think the British Empire was squeaky clean. How many indigenous were killed, beaten and abused in Africa, India, Australia, Asia. Totaled up? A few million I'll bet

 

I didnt include Ireland. 10 million gone to the four corners of the earth, many dying aboard ships on the way.

 

Europe's insatiable greed for riches and cheap raw materials accounted for much more misery and death than that caused during an unfortunate episode in Phillipine history

[callippo]

what a terrible source this clown uses. The loss of life among Filipinos during the insurrection, from all causes, is usually estimated at between 200,000 and 600,000 by serious historians, still very high, but nowhere near 1.5 milllion. A moment's thought ought to be able to tell anyone, given the demographic pyramid of the Philippines at the time (50% were under the age of 17), that such a figure as that would not be possible.

 

the Philippines is one of those countries, like South Korea, where Americans tend to get a pretty good reception, better than other foreigners, you'd know this if you had ever been there. The whole place seems to be almost obsessed with the USA actually.

 

the high point of the Philippines was the mid to late 1930s, this is when it is almost the richest country in Asia comparable to Japan at that time, with the highest living standards, and went by the tag Pearl of the Orient. Now of course things have changed, and it's not the richest country in Asia anymore, but one of the poorest. It was only fifty years ago, Filipinos used to send out to Hong Kong to get Chinese maids. Now in Hong Kong on Sunday afternoons, you can't move for Filipino helpers and maids camped out on the sidewalks on their day or half day off.

[Harleyman]

what a terrible source this clown uses. The loss of life among Filipinos during the insurrection, from all causes, is usually estimated at between 200,000 and 600,000 by serious historians, still very high, but nowhere near 1.5 milllion. A moment's thought ought to be able to tell anyone, given the demographic pyramid of the Philippines at the time (50% were under the age of 17), that such a figure as that would not be possible.

 

the Philippines is one of those countries, like South Korea, where Americans tend to get a pretty good reception, better than other foreigners, you'd know this if you had ever been there. The whole place seems to be almost obsessed with the USA actually.

 

the high point of the Philippines was the mid to late 1930s, this is when it is almost the richest country in Asia comparable to Japan at that time, with the highest living standards, and went by the tag Pearl of the Orient. Now of course things have changed, and it's not the richest country in Asia anymore, but one of the poorest. It was only fifty years ago, Filipinos used to send out to Hong Kong to get Chinese maids. Now in Hong Kong on Sunday afternoons, you can't move for Filipino helpers and maids camped out on the sidewalks on their day or half day off.

 

Filipino immigrants have been a great asset to American society. Like other Asians they're entrepreneurs, doctors, nurses, dentists and more. We couldnt do without them.

You wont find a Filipino selling drugs or wasting his life away running with a street gang

[players]

what a terrible source this clown uses. The loss of life among Filipinos during the insurrection, from all causes, is usually estimated at between 200,000 and 600,000 by serious historians, still very high, but nowhere near 1.5 milllion.

 

Between the years 1899 and 1913 the United States of America wrote the darkest pages of its history. The invasion of the Philippines for no other reason than acquiring imperial possessions, prompted a fierce reaction of the Filipino people. 126,000 American soldiers were brought in to quell the resistance. As a result, 400,000 Filipino “insurrectos” died under the American fire and one million Filipino civilians died because of the hardship, mass killings and scorched earth tactics carried out by the Americans.

 

In total the American war against a peaceful people who fairly ignored the existence of the Americans until their arrival wiped out 1/6 of the population of the country. One hundred years have passed. Isn’t it high time that the USA army, Congress and Government apologised for the horrendous crimes and monstruous sufferings that inflicted upon the peoples of Filipinas?

 

Filipino historian E. San Juan, Jr., alleges that the death of 1.4 million Filipinos constitutes an act of genocide on the part of the United States.