Are you going to vote or spoil your paper?

[esme]

Which is precisely why it's better to submit a blank slip.

 

details here-

 

http://www.blankvote.org.uk/blank_votes_count.html

OK, I pointed the electoral commission at that website and queried whether a blank ballot is taken as a protest, the response is

I have reviewed the website you provided a link to and I believe I understand what they are referring to.

 

I said that blank votes are not counted toward the outcome of the election (this would be impossible because they indicate no preference).

 

However, blank ballot papers that have been put in the ballot box will be counted in the total number of ballot papers received, they will just be invalid. The results published could look something like this.

 

Number of ballots papers received: 810

Number of valid votes: 800

 

As the results are published in this way, everyone will be able to see that there have been a number of invalid votes but they will not be able to tell whether they are blank, spoilt or invalid for another reason. If a number of ballot papers have been invalidated then this could be interpreted as protest, or a message to politicians. There is no official option to 'vote blank' to signify protest as stated by this group.

 

I hope this clarifies the matter for you, please let me know if you require any further information.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Alex Barker

Public Information Adviser

3 Bunhill Row

London EC1Y 8YZ

So there is no official option to vote blank and signify a protest.

 

I think that should nail the coffin fairly firmly shut, "If a number of ballot papers have been invalidated then this could be interpreted as protest", however politicians are capable of ignoring mass demonstrations outside parliament so "could be a protest" isn't going to get a look in.

 

If you spoiled your ballot or if you left your ballot blank, then you wasted your time.

 

Further if you encouraged others to do the same, then you wasted their time as well.

 

And that website is wrong.

Of course they're not "recognised as a protest".

1. What's the point of such protest?

2. To whom are the non-voters protesting?

3. Who's supposed to do the recognising?

I didn't think they were Jeffrey, but my thoughts aren't going to convince onewheeldave an official response from the electoral commission might.

[onewheeldave]

I didn't think they were Jeffrey, but my thoughts aren't going to convince onewheeldave an official response from the electoral commission might.

 

Good work- the reply seems to be saying that blank votes are counted, but, not distinguished from spoiled votes, which would certainly reduce the potential effectiveness of blank voting, and, mean the 'Blank vote' page was incorrect.

 

However, I've just rung up one of the numbers for the electoral commision and asked them whether blank votes and counted in the same category as spoiled votes, and, it's clear from the response that simply working for the electoral commision does not necessarily qualify one to answer such questions correctly.

 

i.e. I was informed initially that blank and spoiled votes were lumped together as one for the announced results, but, a record is kept of them in their exact category, and, available for perusal at the main sheffield council office responsible for election results (available for several days after the result).

 

However, the person then contradicted themselves by saying the opposite.

 

So, the coffin is not yet nailed shut and, over the next week I may spend some time ringing up other offices in an effort to get pointed towards some kind of official document, available to the public, which states exactly how blank votes are categorised.

 

I'd urge you to do the same- the more people look for it, the more likely it is to be found, and, if found, it would settle the matter.

 

 

If you spoiled your ballot or if you left your ballot blank, then you wasted your time.

 

Further if you encouraged others to do the same, then you wasted their time as well.

 

 

I didn't waste my vote. For me it was either not vote at all, or submit a blank slip. By submitting a blank slip I, at worst, increased the number of blank spoiled slips, at best, increased the number of blank slips (depending on how they are officially categorised), and, left myself immune from accusations of 'voter apathy'.

 

Additionally, this issue helped to spark off some interest for campaigning for a 'none of the above' option, which, many other countries already have.

[onewheeldave]

I think people need a protest vote to let off steam. It's so infuriating to hear of a low turnout as 'voter apathy' when it's often nothing of the sort.

 

 

I agree. Politicians are in no position to fob off people not voting as 'apathy'- a portion obviously is, but, for many, it's because they opose the current system so much, that they, on principle, withhold participation in it.

[onewheeldave]

Why don't protest voters stand for election themselves if they think none of the candidates are good enough?

 

Becasue they feel it's not so much a case of the candidates not being good enough, but more to do with the whole political system, in their eyes, being corrupt, and, so biased against anyone with real integrity, that they could never acheive a position where they could change anything.

 

It doesn't mean they've given up hope (hence movements like Occupy), just that they feel becoming part of the system is futile.

 

As an analogy, it's a bit like playing roulette- if the aim is to come out ahead, it's futile playing, as the numbers on the wheel are set up so that, overall, the house will always come out ahead. In that situation, becoming part of the system (playing the game) is not a good option.

[Hairyloon]

Well as I keep pointing out we have this wonderful thing called the internet, where people of like mind can get together and organise themselves into a group...

OK, so which part of the internet do you suggest we use to do this?

A few times I have suggested that we field a candidate off this forum, and to describe the response as "apathetic" would be too enthusiastic.

 

Does the risk outweigh the reward ?

The risk of winning?

Scares the hell out of me.

 

If you spoiled your ballot or if you left your ballot blank, then you wasted your time.

Not entirely. At least you demonstrate a lack of apathy.

[esme]

OK, so which part of the internet do you suggest we use to do this?

A few times I have suggested that we field a candidate off this forum, and to describe the response as "apathetic" would be too enthusiastic.

Well there are plenty of free forums out there you can start your own chat room and stick a link to it in your signature.

 

Fielding a candidate off here might be awkward as really it should be just for people in your constituency or ward and this forum covers all of Sheffield, and apparently the Phillipines, Russia, India, The USA, Australia yadda yadda so lack of specificity might be the problem or fear of being ridiculed and heckled by people from outside the area.

 

If it's a separate forum then it's specific and you may not get so much heckling and if you do, well, you'll be the forum admin.

 

You'll probably find it's like herding cats, providing you can get enough members in the first place.

 

Setting up your own forum is dead easy and costs nothing as they are all funded by click through advertising, I've set a few up for people just decide what features you want and go find a service that provides them, google is your friend with this.

 

You just need to select options from the management pages for things like whether non members can see the contents and how people can join - I recommend that you have admin approve new members first if you don't want to be inundated with spam

The risk of winning?

Scares the hell out of me.

Me too, the alternative of being told what to do by someone who puts their party before the electorate scares me more though

Not entirely. At least you demonstrate a lack of apathy.

Sadly politicians don't seem to share that view and equate spoiled ballots with not bothering to vote.

 

I believe the fewer people vote the easier it is for politicians, as it then boils down to which party has the most members and therefore the most guaranteed votes, so voter apathy does the two main parties a favour by preventing anyone else getting a look in

[esme]

Good work- the reply seems to be saying that blank votes are counted, but, not distinguished from spoiled votes, which would certainly reduce the potential effectiveness of blank voting, and, mean the 'Blank vote' page was incorrect.

 

However, I've just rung up one of the numbers for the electoral commision and asked them whether blank votes and counted in the same category as spoiled votes, and, it's clear from the response that simply working for the electoral commision does not necessarily qualify one to answer such questions correctly.

Good idea, the only problem I have with that is there's no record of phone calls, that's why I email people.

 

I'm not saying the information you got was wrong, but a written response from someone in the public information office can be referred to in a court if necessary, so they have to make sure the details are correct before responding, someone on the phone can say what they think is correct but they could be wrong.

 

However I agree that does muddy the waters a bit and has levered open the coffin again.

 

As I did the last email could you do the next one ?

[Green Web]

Somalia is irrelevant here- that situation was created not by lack of government, but by the foreign policies, greed and imported arms of 'civililised', well-governed nations like

 

 

Originally Posted by Green Web

 

Most of the public sector is target driven, and MP's are supposed to be there to serve the public, we are not here to serve them, they should be paid on results, and if they don't fulfil what they promised then their pay should be docked or sacked from their job.

 

Exactly- good point. In every other area, high wages come with the obligation to deliver the promised results.

 

Tar, I would enforce this by making the partys manifesto a legally binding contract with the electorate.

[Hairyloon]

Well there are plenty of free forums out there you can start your own chat room and stick a link to it in your signature.

If people here can't even be bothered to discuss the subject, then they are not likely to follow a link and sign up to another forum.

 

Fielding a candidate off here might be awkward as really it should be just for people in your constituency or ward and this forum covers all of Sheffield, and apparently the Phillipines, Russia, India, The USA, Australia yadda yadda so lack of specificity might be the problem or fear of being ridiculed and heckled by people from outside the area.

I don't see why it would be a problem having input from outside the constituency, and anyone concerned about heckling is going nowhere in this game anyway.

[Hairyloon]

Tar, I would enforce this by making the partys manifesto a legally binding contract with the electorate.

 

How? At best you could only make it a contract that they take every reasonable effort to enact the manifesto, and that would be nigh on impossible to enforce.