boyfriday Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I agree. Those who have become citizens have breached the bond of trust with the British people that should exist for any foreigner lucky enough to be granted citizenship so it should be stripped from them and they should be deported. Ive some sympathy with that view andy, but a feature of English law is that it's fair and equitable for all citizens, so effectively you'd be punishing one group of citizens more than another for committing the same crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 What's happening to this forum? Normal rules are that you never apologise, but blame the BBC for passing on false information, then make some sort of personal attack on BF's spelling and grammar to deflect the topic. Oh, and add a smiley or six! Iyull secund that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Ive some sympathy with that view andy, but a feature of English law is that it's fair and equitable for all citizens, so effectively you'd be punishing one group of citizens more than another for committing the same crime. One citizen is the same as another citizen if they are actually citizens. However looking into the process through which citizenship by naturalisation is granted one of the things that has to be met is that the potential subject is a good character. Clearly criminals are not of good character. Citizenship can be revoked if material facts were not disclosed at the time of application and that would seem to me to include the good character aspect so it may be possible under current law to revoke the citizenship of any naturalised citizen who is proven to not be of good character in a court of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 One citizen is the same as another citizen if they are actually citizens. However looking into the process through which citizenship by naturalisation is granted one of the things that has to be met is that the potential subject is a good character. Clearly criminals are not of good character. Citizenship can be revoked if material facts were not disclosed at the time of application and that would seem to me to include the good character aspect so it may be possible under current law to revoke the citizenship of any naturalised citizen who is proven to not be of good character in a court of law. Yes, I'm sure it could but I guess the question is should they then be compelled to serve a prison sentence in a British jail or deported on conviction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Some rather more disturbing news here. Quite possibly Griffin was just being his usual odious self; but justice has to be seen to be fair and above board, and unfortunately this gives clear grounds for appeal. (It doesn't automatically mean the appeal will succeed...) thats not what the judge thought of the juries decision and he even thanked them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Yes, I'm sure it could but I guess the question is should they then be compelled to serve a prison sentence in a British jail or deported on conviction? That's a very good point. If instead of dealing with the issue of removal of citizenship/deportation at the end of the sentance we could deal with it up front and have them serve their sentance in their country of origin (with actual costs met by us and remitted to the relevant nation) there would be both significant cost savings and significant deterant effect. I likey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 we could [...] have them serve their sentance in their country of origin What if the crime they commit here isn't a crime in their country of origin? Or is punished in a different way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 What if the crime they commit here isn't a crime in their country of origin? Or is punished in a different way? Obviously the devil is in the detail with all these things. In a case like this I would hope that there are no countries in which raping children is just fine according to the law but in other cases there maybe issues. It would clearly be a matter of intergovernmental treaty like extradition treaties but given the very high cost of keeping prisoners here even if we bung the relevant governments a 100% premium on their true cost of keeping them we'll still make a huge saving, and of course that deterant value of doing your time in some third world jail with no telly will keep some, granted not all, on the straight and narrow and both save potential offenders and potential victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Obviously the devil is in the detail with all these things. In a case like this I would hope that there are no countries in which raping children is just fine according to the law but in other cases there maybe issues. It would clearly be a matter of intergovernmental treaty like extradition treaties but given the very high cost of keeping prisoners here even if we bung the relevant governments a 100% premium on their true cost of keeping them we'll still make a huge saving, and of course that deterant value of doing your time in some third world jail with no telly will keep some, granted not all, on the straight and narrow and both save potential offenders and potential victims. you would be abusing their human rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 In a case like this I would hope that there are no countries in which raping children is just fine according to the law The youngest girl was 13, so maybe she'd be considered 'adult' in other countries. Other countries would have to respect our justice system and consider it equal to their own. Then we'd have to trust another penal system - how do we know that they won't be allowed to minimum security prisons? How do we know that in foreign prisons these men won't be rewarded and praised for what they've done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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