Teddybare Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I agree it's not an easy choice to decide where to draw the line but I would immagaine it will end up being drawn at the points the BF raised. Inactivity, drinking, smoking, obesity with the addition of illegal drug users. Not in terms of previous lifestyle but in terms on needing to change lifestyle going forward. Like promising not to drink after a liver transplant or you'll have to pay for the op retrospectively? Not sure any criteria would work and if it did no one would want to do anything risky/fun/dangerous/outside for fear they'd go bankrupt from hospital fees. Unless something is congenital/hereditary, how many other things couldn't be classed as "lifestyle related"? Nhs is either free for all, unconditionally or it may as well not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Like promising not to drink after a liver transplant or you'll have to pay for the op retrospectively? Not sure any criteria would work and if it did no one would want to do anything risky/fun/dangerous/outside for fear they'd go bankrupt from hospital fees. Unless something is congenital/hereditary, how many other things couldn't be classed as "lifestyle related"? Nhs is either free for all, unconditionally or it may as well not exist. That's rather the issue, if it continues to be free for all, unconditionally, it will end up not existing. We can't ignore the demographic pressures. If you add even 50% of the population living 10 years longer to where we were in 1970 (and i think it's probably more than that) with more diseases that can at a cost be treated then the impact on what we are asking the NHS to do is enormous. I'm not saying what we're talking about here is necessarilly the answer, but we certainly cannot just carry on as we are and expect the NHS to cope, it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Well its all those things isn't it?! how can you say that(too many) new babies born isn't a contributory factor in population growth?? That's absolutely fine, but it isn't actually what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 The main reasons for population growth are advances in medical science, health and safety awareness and Immigration of particular people who's culture it is to produce large broods. There may well be 'cultures' who produce 'large broods' but they don't exist in sufficient numbers (compared to births in the indigenous population) to have a material effect on the problems associated with population growth..in fact a compelling argument could be presented to prove the opposite (chem1st alluded to it in an earlier post). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I think as pressures continue to increase on the NHS there would be broad public support for legally binding contracts for patients presenting with lifestyle relatyed medical problems to address the lifestyle issue or not recieve further treatment on the NHS. I agree, I think very few people faced with such a stark choice would continue with their harmful lifestyles. Like you say though, it may cause us as many problems as it solves. In the wider context the UK is a drop in the ocean of the global population growth problem though. Interesting perspective, I wonder whether geographical trends in health, births, death and prosperity have to be cyclical? Third world populations are to some degree moderated by poverty, and the food/water supply..I wonder if developed nations create their own problems by maintaining comprehensive health/social care systems where people don't have to die from starvation, dysentery or other illnesses associated with poverty and our expectations are too elevated. In time will those third world countries steal a march on us in being more adaptable to food, water and revenue shortages...it's food for thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I agree, I think very few people faced with such a stark choice would continue with their harmful lifestyles. Interesting perspective, I wonder whether geographical trends in health, births, death and prosperity have to be cyclical? Third world populations are to some degree moderated by poverty, and the food/water supply..I wonder if developed nations create their own problems by maintaining comprehensive health/social care systems where people don't have to die from starvation, dysentery or other illnesses associated with poverty and our expectations are too elevated. In time will those third world countries steal a march on us in being more adaptable to food, water and revenue shortages...it's food for thought! The problem is that it’s the third world countries populations that are growing, most developed countries populations are only increasing because of immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Good news IMO. I'd like to see it reduced much further, to two, and then to one. We need to reduce the population before resources are gone. Which 'we' is that, then? The 'we' who like democracy; or the 'we' adopting the Chinese Government's policy of killing babies which inconveniently happen to be girls born first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Interesting perspective, I wonder whether geographical trends in health, births, death and prosperity have to be cyclical? Third world populations are to some degree moderated by poverty, and the food/water supply..I wonder if developed nations create their own problems by maintaining comprehensive health/social care systems where people don't have to die from starvation, dysentery or other illnesses associated with poverty and our expectations are too elevated. In time will those third world countries steal a march on us in being more adaptable to food, water and revenue shortages...it's food for thought! I think, and hope that we are smart enough as a nation to fight our way through the upcoming crises and come out if not on top but very near the top. If we are to do this our relationship with the third world is key. The BRICS countries are wreaking havoc on their environments in pursuit of growth by selling us cheap rubbish, we need to hold the line and look at sustainable investment partnerships in Africa as and when democratic participation creates a backlash/nationalisation of chinese "on our terms only" investments. Britain can recover hugely, we just need to play our cards right, and this includes in the short term doing what we are doing to attract the last of the arab oil money into physical infrastructure projects like the Thames port which we can nationalise in a heartbeat if their governments fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddybare Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 ..I wonder if developed nations create their own problems by maintaining comprehensive health/social care systems where people don't have to die from starvation, dysentery or other illnesses associated with poverty and our expectations are too elevated. In time will those third world countries steal a march on us in being more adaptable to food, water and revenue shortages...it's food for thought! We can't have dysentery epidemics and Logan's run. Choose one and stick to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenyweeny Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 It would be more accurate to say that it affects practically no-one. The vast majority of families have less than six children. Not where i live they dont, they breed like rabbits..I stopped at 3 myself now all grown up and left home,the minority of idiots just have em for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.