Does adopting Islam liberate women?

[Chris_Sleeps]

I can't see how anyone [...] believes that wearing a burqa frees a woman from being 'judged' on her appearance.

It's impossible to stop people judging anyone on appearance, but the burqa definetly stops people judging a woman on her personal features. Specifically her face and her body.

[PaliRichard]

As that bit comes before the 'however' and the supposed advantages, I'd guess that he's postulating it as part of the restrictions?

 

I can't see how anyone, man or woman, believes that wearing a burqa frees a woman from being 'judged' on her appearance. Anymore than wearing anything other than a fairly normal outfit stops others from judging anyone on their appearance.

 

And the answer to the op, in my opinion, would be NO. Adopting any religion as a serious endeavour and not a cry for attention or acceptance in a certain set is bound to restrict one.

 

Thanks. The difficulty with people who have your opinion is that you impose restriction on people who choose to be religious and when they insist they are not restricted you pat them on the head and say things like 'You think you're not restricted'.

 

Well despite the practice of religion making me happier than I've ever been before practicing religion (when I was 'free' to do what I wanted) I am obviously being repressed and controlled.

 

Thank God you came along to put me straight.

[Suffragette1]

It's impossible to stop people judging anyone on appearance, but the burqa definetly stops people judging a woman on her personal features. Specifically her face and her body.

 

It does but it just substitutes one set of judgements and assumptions with another, in my view. It also creates a barrier.

 

I have heard women argue how wearing the veil, in its many forms, is liberating. I could possibly see that it may be empowering to be in a position to see others and not be seen in return, which is another reason why I dislike the burqa and niqab.

 

People converting to any religion, through free choice is entirely different to being brought up with it and not having the freedom to exercise whichever faith (or not) one wishes to align oneself to.

[llamatron]

There is absolutely no way that hiding under cloth is liberating-it might be irrelevant but if you feel under pressure to have botox until you cover your face with material you just have self confidence issues!

[rubydazzler]

It's impossible to stop people judging anyone on appearance, but the burqa definitely stops people judging a woman on her personal features. Specifically her face and her body.

I don't think it does. People will either assume she's Helen of Troy, or got a face like the back of a bus and a body like a bag of spanners. Many people also think that wearing it in the UK is a deliberate provocation. Not me, I just feel sad when I see it.

You can't liberate someone by telling them what they must do.

Quite. But it isn't an Islamic necessity, it's either an imposition in certain cultures/countries, or a deliberate choice by the individual woman.

...Thank God you came along to put me straight.

You're very welcome. My work here is done then

[Chris_Sleeps]

I have heard women argue how wearing the veil, in its many forms, is liberating. I could possibly see that it may be empowering to be in a position to see others and not be seen in return, which is another reason why I dislike the burqa and niqab.

I dislike it, vastly. I'm moved by the argument that it is their choice to wear what they wish, so I don't know how I feel about a full ban, but I know that they make me extremely uncomfortable.

I don't think it does. People will either assume she's Helen of Troy, or got a face like the back of a bus

Thus they'd be judging her on assumptions, which isn't the same as being judged on appearance.

[rubydazzler]

I dislike it, vastly. I'm moved by the argument that it is their choice to wear what they wish, so I don't know how I feel about a full ban, but I know that they make me extremely uncomfortable.

 

Thus they'd be judging her on assumptions, which isn't the same as being judged on appearance.

Anyone with a covered face makes most people feel uncomfortable. For interaction and trust you need to be able to see someone's facial expressions. Many people don't even like conversing with people wearing sunglasses, especially mirrored ones. The feeling of empowerment as Suffy commented is all one way. I don't even try with shrouded people, because my assumption is that they don't want contact with anyone in public.

 

People's judgments are usually based on assumptions about the person behind the appearance, whether that be Goth or tatts. It's all assumptions.

 

I wouldn't support a ban because I don't think it would help to eradicate the fashion, gentle persuasion and example from role models seems to be the answer. I also assume that if someone feels they've been liberated, they actually have?

 

Although we've been down this road many times before and I'm beginning to feel that the main stumbling block to general acceptance of Islam in UK is the extremists, whether in fervour or dress code.

[Cyclone]

Thanks. The difficulty with people who have your opinion is that you impose restriction on people who choose to be religious and when they insist they are not restricted you pat them on the head and say things like 'You think you're not restricted'.

 

Well despite the practice of religion making me happier than I've ever been before practicing religion (when I was 'free' to do what I wanted) I am obviously being repressed and controlled.

 

Thank God you came along to put me straight.

 

You've always been free to wear whatever clothing you liked. You didn't need to adopt a religion to make that possible. So whatever religion it is you've adopted it hasn't freed you in any way, even if it has made you more happy.

(Actually there are some restrictions in the UK, but that's more of a minimum amount of clothing than a maximum).

[Cyclone]

Quite. But it isn't an Islamic necessity, it's either an imposition in certain cultures/countries, or a deliberate choice by the individual woman.

In the UK a woman would be free to dress like that without requiring a religion or social convention that tells her she should. So Islam doesn't liberate someone in the UK, they were already free to dress how they like (including in a burqa).

[PaliRichard]

You've always been free to wear whatever clothing you liked. You didn't need to adopt a religion to make that possible. So whatever religion it is you've adopted it hasn't freed you in any way, even if it has made you more happy.

(Actually there are some restrictions in the UK, but that's more of a minimum amount of clothing than a maximum).

 

The O/P wasn't about clothing, it was about wether Islam liberated women.

 

Liberation isn't just about the clothes you wear.

 

Following the rules of the religion itself can be liberating, it has freed me because I thought freedom was doing what you wanted without restriction. In fact, in my case, and in the case of a close Muslim friend doing 'what we wanted' was in fact restrictive.

 

I'm speaking only from personal experience and not saying that in all cases it's the same, but that's why I put in my original responce to the O/P that it was too vague a question.

 

Both Buddhism and Islam ask you to follow the rules, but both Buddhism and Islam in their ideal form (that is the form without cultural baggage or humans using them for their own end) insist that the rules have to be followed freely. If you are forced to follow them, in any way, shape or form then they are not liberating, but constricting. If you follow them freely they are no longer 'rules' as such. They are however, very, very liberating.

 

Like I said, I'm not speaking for everyone, and every persons circumstances are different, but what I don't like is this patronizing attitude (I'm not suggesting from you, I'm just off on a bit of a rant) that anyone who is following religious rules is restricted, and even if they say they are liberated by following them they are lying because they can't possibly be liberated.

 

That attitude to me, and many other religious people, is far more restrictive than any religious rules.