Phanerothyme Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Public transport can do a lot more than it currently does, but it's never going to be able to do everything. Why not? What is it about the concept of public transport (as opposed to its lackadaisical implementation now) that prevents it from fulfilling all transport needs short of walking and cycling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Why not? What is it about the concept of public transport (as opposed to its lackadaisical implementation now) that prevents it from fulfilling all transport needs short of walking and cycling? The conflicting requirements of the need to serve multiple people whilst attempting to fulfil the needs of individuals. It's not public transport if it's dedicated to me, ie will be there immediately when I want it, will take me from where I am to exactly where I wish to go in the shortest time possible or via whatever route I choose. If it is public transport, ie serving multiple people, not putting my priorities first, then by definition the concept doesn't fulfil my transport needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 The conflicting requirements of the need to serve multiple people whilst attempting to fulfil the needs of individuals. It's not public transport if it's dedicated to me, ie will be there immediately when I want it, will take me from where I am to exactly where I wish to go in the shortest time possible or via whatever route I choose. If it is public transport, ie serving multiple people, not putting my priorities first, then by definition the concept doesn't fulfil my transport needs. Surely taxis and private hire vehicles pretty much meet those needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Surely taxis and private hire vehicles pretty much meet those needs. Can a private hire vehicle be considered to be public transport? If so why not include a leased car in that category? Taxi's might almost meet that requirement, although I think you'd actually need a dedicated car and driver to truly meet it. I can't see a taxi waiting for me outside, I can see my car in the drive. And of course if we all stopped using private vehicles and instead used taxi's there would be no net saving in pollution as just as many car miles would be driven, but there would be a net loss to all of us using the taxi, it would cost me much more to use a taxi for most of my journeys than my car. So maybe I should modify my response to Phan to say that "Public transport cannot at a reasonable cost meet the same needs that private transport fulfils.". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Can a private hire vehicle be considered to be public transport? If so why not include a leased car in that category? Taxi's might almost meet that requirement, although I think you'd actually need a dedicated car and driver to truly meet it. I can't see a taxi waiting for me outside, I can see my car in the drive. And of course if we all stopped using private vehicles and instead used taxi's there would be no net saving in pollution as just as many car miles would be driven, but there would be a net loss to all of us using the taxi, it would cost me much more to use a taxi for most of my journeys than my car. So maybe I should modify my response to Phan to say that "Public transport cannot at a reasonable cost meet the same needs that private transport fulfils.". Just to clarify, by "private hire vehicle", I was meaning a car and driver, pre-booked, in contrast to a taxi (ie a black cab you can hail). In some cases a taxi is much more convenient than a private car. Going from your home to someone else's home would normally be more convenient in your own car, provided parking is available at both ends, but there are other scenarios that might not be. There is no reduction in pollution by using taxis, in fact pollution likely goes up, as they do extra journeys to and from where they pick you up and drop you. For the vast majority of people a private car is much more practical, but whether or not it is the cheapest solution will depend on their individual needs and usage. People living in a large city are more likely to be well served by good public transport (including taxis), but badly served by cheap, locally available parking. Someone who only occasionally needs the door to door convenience of their own car might be better served by a taxi on the odd occasion they do need it, and not bother with a car. There are a lot of people who do not have access to a car for a multitude of reasons, whether it is cost, inability to drive, or whatever (either as a matter of choice or external cause), and manage well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Indeed, and I'm sure that people decide for themselves based on the issues you mention. It's pretty clear though that public transport isn't ideal for a lot of people or they wouldn't bother to have a car and that whilst public transport in the form of a taxi (black or booked) could fulfil most of the needs that people had, it's actually a less efficient solution than private transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 That depends on whether they display a red ring around the number or not. No ring = Advisory speed limit. Ring = Mandatory speed limit. Yes. Gantry signs' electronic display of speed limit is advisory; whereas red-ringed signs have the normal statutory effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Yes. Gantry signs' electronic display of speed limit is advisory; whereas red-ringed signs have the normal statutory effect. You're trying to generalise too much. There are several places now where Gantry signs electronic display of the speed limit is not an advisory limit, but an actual one. For example the M25 and portions of the M42 (there are probably more, these are just the ones I know). So to state that gantry signs are only ever advisory is incorrect. Mapleboy's correction of your earlier post was accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Er, did I state only ever advisory in post #107? [A: No, I didn't] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Indeed, and I'm sure that people decide for themselves based on the issues you mention. It's pretty clear though that public transport isn't ideal for a lot of people or they wouldn't bother to have a car and that whilst public transport in the form of a taxi (black or booked) could fulfil most of the needs that people had, it's actually a less efficient solution than private transport. In truth, public transport in the form of buses and trains, could most of the needs of an awful lot of people. Anyone, for instance, who lives in a suburb of Sheffield and works regular hours in the city centre, doesn't need a car to get there and back. (They may well prefer one, since buses can be noisy, smelly and uncomfortable - but those are problems that could be resolved. They don't need one if buses run within 100 yards of their door six times an hour.) At what point does it actually become cheaper, and more sensible, to not bother owning a car, use public transport to get to work, and just hire a car for a week or a weekend when you actually want to go somewhere out of the usual commuter run? We did exactly that for several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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