Balpin Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 HC figures silly? What are they and how on earth do you use them? M/w into Leeds a waste of time? Is that the m/w with lower limits where you have limited views ahead, lots of lane changing and hidden exits/entrances i.e. higher hazard levels than a normal straight-ish m/w? Sounds like the gripe of a driver who does not see hazards where they are. I have been driving for almost 35 years, most on motorway driving. As an experienced driver you can see problems miles ahead. You can tell by the traffic speed and behaviour. You can also pick out tosspots who have no idea how to drive, and the boy racers who are only alive because we allow them their stupidity. Dont tell me how to drive old pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 That's all true for the cars except drivers haven't improved in driving ability or knowledge. So making the driving test harder has been a waste of time? For instance: Tell me what the latest research revealed about driver reaction speeds and how much worse it is compared to the figure used in the HC's table. No idea, you'll have to tell me. Do drivers react slower now than 40 years ago? Tell me when you last checked your tyre pressures. Two weeks ago & my car has a sensor that gives me a warning if any tire pressure drops slightly. Tell me what tyre tread you have on all four corners and what its function is. Tell me at what ambient temperature does the performance in tyres start to drop off. Tell me how the tread's performance changes between new, 3mm and 1.6mm Is any of this relevant to an 80mph speed limit on motorways? The function of tire tread is to divert water, it only makes a difference if the road is wet, then it's going to depend on how wet. Tell me about the Laws of Physics and the differences between no impact and impact that just 10mph extra speed can have between 70, 80, 90mph. The difference between no impact & impact is that there is an impact or there isn't. Momentum is the product of the mass & speed of an object. 70mph = 31.29 m/s, a Ford Fiesta weighs 1041kg, so a Fiesta at 70mph has 32,573 kg m/s of momentum. At 70mph it's 37,226. At 90mph it's 41,879 kg m/s. Tell me just how much worse this will be in poor weather. It will be exactly the same in all weather conditions. Tell me how you can keep safe on m/w's by retention of space ahead and behind and escape routes to the sides. Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule. Tell me how much more knowledgeable about driving the average German driver is. I've never done any studies on it & don't care, I don't live in Germany or ever drive on German roads. When you've done that have a guess how many drivers around you come up with a full set of correct answers. Tell me which questions you asked incorrectly. Tell me why you should be on a road if you need a sign to tell you what speed to drive at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 So making the driving test harder has been a waste of time? No idea, you'll have to tell me. Do drivers react slower now than 40 years ago? Two weeks ago & my car has a sensor that gives me a warning if any tire pressure drops slightly. Is any of this relevant to an 80mph speed limit on motorways? The function of tire tread is to divert water, it only makes a difference if the road is wet, then it's going to depend on how wet. The difference between no impact & impact is that there is an impact or there isn't. Momentum is the product of the mass & speed of an object. 70mph = 31.29 m/s, a Ford Fiesta weighs 1041kg, so a Fiesta at 70mph has 32,573 kg m/s of momentum. At 70mph it's 37,226. At 90mph it's 41,879 kg m/s. It will be exactly the same in all weather conditions. Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule. I've never done any studies on it & don't care, I don't live in Germany or ever drive on German roads. Tell me which questions you asked incorrectly. Tell me why you should be on a road if you need a sign to tell you what speed to drive at. Re bib - There's also kinetic energy to consider. In the event of a crash, that energy goes somewhere. A change of speed has a bigger effect on kinetic energy than it does on momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Ralge Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 So making the driving test harder has been a waste of time? No idea, you'll have to tell me. Do drivers react slower now than 40 years ago? Two weeks ago & my car has a sensor that gives me a warning if any tire pressure drops slightly. Is any of this relevant to an 80mph speed limit on motorways? The function of tire tread is to divert water, it only makes a difference if the road is wet, then it's going to depend on how wet. The difference between no impact & impact is that there is an impact or there isn't. Momentum is the product of the mass & speed of an object. 70mph = 31.29 m/s, a Ford Fiesta weighs 1041kg, so a Fiesta at 70mph has 32,573 kg m/s of momentum. At 70mph it's 37,226. At 90mph it's 41,879 kg m/s. It will be exactly the same in all weather conditions. Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule. I've never done any studies on it & don't care, I don't live in Germany or ever drive on German roads. Tell me which questions you asked incorrectly. Tell me why you should be on a road if you need a sign to tell you what speed to drive at. You did well to respond to many of my questions - quite impressive, really, relative to the general driving public i meet daily, in truth. The increasing difficulty of the L-test - well, the pass rate hasn't been affected at all by the incremental changes in the test (theory > theory + haz percep > add in Show Me Tell Me > add in Indep Driving). It is still the that young inexperienced drivers are over-represented in KSI stats. TRL and Direct Line Ins. research suggested driver reaction time is more likely to be a full second than the two-thirds used in the HC. It's good that you have a vehicle that constantly monitors tyre pressure - watch out for those around you that don't and don't do anything with their tyres until they look flat. Kinetic energy/Laws of Physics means that even a few mph of extra speed make a massive exponential difference in impact energy. Below 3mm tread water dissipation performance of your tyres falls off the cliff and their wet performance at a legal 1.6 or at a leased vehicle's 2mm (before authorisation to change) is scarily poor. Below 7deg C, your tyres harden, develop lower rolling resistance but poorer road holding and stopping performance. So "exactly the same in all weather conditions" is simply wrong. "only a fool ..." - good! How many keep this as a minimum at any speed? By the way, a 3-second gap is better/preferable at higher speeds. German driver training is far more comprehensive than the UK's and, in truth, this was my main point. Doing higher speeds is no problem if you know all the answers and do the checks. Just writing "cars can handle it, so why not?" is simply not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Does the Z4M come with or without indicators? They seem to be an option not many go for. And does it have one of those BMW sat navs? You know the ones; you fly down the outside lane at 80mph, car on cruise control, brain in neutral and then when you get 100 yards from the exit sat nav yells at you to pull off so you have to slam on the brakes and cross three lanes of traffic without indicating. I see it every day ...................... not always Z4Ms though. If you get in a BMW and drive it does the way you drive change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The overall road haulage fuel bill would sky rocket if the wagons had to conga down one lane only. Everything would increase in price. Get car drivers off the road and leave it to the wagons. Then modify the wagons to take passengers and sell the capacity online. Problem solved. Really? How is a lorry going to pick me up from my driveway and drive me to my parents (who for the sake of argument who might live in 'a small place that nobody much goes to')? BTW - it has to call at the supermarket on the way home, and take a detour via "some other place" where I thought I'd seen an interesting road last week and want another look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 There seems to be a good argument for additional driver training to be allowed on motorways, particularly if the speed limit is increased, I doubt anyone would object to that, except maybe Balpin who'll tell the instructor "don't tell me how to drive old pal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 One solution would be more cameras and larger penalties for drivers who cause crashes for driving too fast and too close. I invariably see a bump daily on the M56 and M6. The motorway is closed while the police sweep up the debris and get the cars onto the hard shoulder. Insurance details are swapped and the incident is then forgotten. Meanwhile, people's insurance premiums creep up and the whole thing happens again the next day or so. There were three quite serious accidents on the motorways yesterday, one woman died in one instance. It barely made the news, nothing was done to reinforce the message of driving safely, so how will people change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The Government have been considering increasing the maximum speed on motorways to 80 mph, is this a good idea or a bad one will it increase the accident rate or are our motorways and drivers not ready for that kind of speed. It`s an appalling idea. With the 70 mph limit many people do 80 as it is, most wouldn`t even be prosecuted for doing 75/80mph. One assumes that if the limit was raised to 80 those same drivers would do 90mph...... Let`s be frank about this, there are some appalling drivers on the roads who don`t stick to the rules as they are, giving these bozos the right to go even faster is just asking for trouble. Having an even bigger difference in speed between the slowest and fastest traffic is a bad idea under any circumstances. Remember many vehicles can`t actually do more than 56mph anyway, and many drivers don`t want to drive at more than 60/65mph. So at 80mph the closing speeds are up to 25mph, at 90mph it`s up to 35mph. People who speed now don`t bear that in mind, so why should they be any more likley to do so with an officially sanctioned 80mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Are you a mind reader? Perhaps the solution for the drivers who aren't comfortable doing more than 60 would be to restrict them to using A roads only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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