Debate: Should people on benefits be paid in coupons

[evildrneil]

Would the bank be running this account for free?

 

Depends on the setup - it could either be a nationalised bank which would do it for "free" (i.e. be paid for out of the tax take) or one of the existing clearing banks who would be getting a nice regular income to work with which should cover the costs of sorting out the tax.

[max]

Wouldn't work would it. Instead of exchanging beer for a token, I'll give you a shopping list and exchange my groceries for some beer.

 

So you're OK with the principle of benefit claimants wearing yellow patches it's just you don't think it's workable?

[poppins]

Theres the food stamp system in the US, seems to work well, I think only supermarkets take them as they are only for "food" so there's no reason for anyone on them to shop elsewhere , also there cannot buy a magazine or cigs going through a checkout.

[Jim Graham]

Yup - that's why I mentioned the word reform! How about this for an idea - when you get your NI number you also get a 'workers account' which you re paid into. NI deductions, income tax etc. become the problem of the bank running the 'workers account' rather than the employer. Effectively everyone would be freelancers and it would cost the employer exactly the same to employ two people for 1/2 N hours each as to employ one person for N hours as you are just paying X per hour immaterial of the number of people doing the work.

 

Well, something has to be done. The idea of scrapping NI altogether has been put forward but it's nothing like enough.

 

But it isn't just the business paperwork that is a problem. I work in construction and there is an entire industry of bureauprats sitting around thinking up new and ingenious ways to keep themselves in work by implementing ever more bureaucracy and expense on the industry. To keep up to date I have to go on course after course and certificates for this and that all the time. It costs me thousands every year. There is no such thing as casual labouring jobs anymore. You can't get on a construction site without a fistful of paperwork. This is what is stopping people from getting jobs. They simply can't get the paperwork. If you are out of work for any length of time all your certificates of competency can expire and then you are effectively unemployable. You haven't lost the skills but your paperwork is out of date. The Jobcentre does not help you get all those back up to date so you stay unemployed.

 

For example, you can't get the paperwork you need to work on the railways unless you are sponsored by an employer. Employers only take on people who already have the paperwork. That means there is only a small number of people qualified to work on the railways so wages are kept high. That's nationalised Network Rail for you. No young people can break into rail engineering easily. There is a huge barrier to employment there and elsewhere. THAT is what needs sorting out to get people into work.......................and the bureaucracy.

[Leah-Lacie]

Theres the food stamp system in the US, seems to work well, I think only supermarkets take them as they are only for "food" so there's no reason for anyone on them to shop elsewhere , also there cannot buy a magazine or cigs going through a checkout.

 

We have a similar thing here if you're on benefits with children. Tokens can be exchanged for baby milk formula, fresh milk, and fresh fruit and vegetables. £3.10 a week per child under 4 or 5 I think it is.

 

Edit to add: Some shops don't accept them though, the Co Op for example. Which is probably a good thing as last time I checked there, baby formula was £2 more than it is elsewhere, and a lot of local corner shop owners are willing to accept them as payment for cigarettes (when fags were slightly cheaper, you could exchange one £3.10 token for 10 cigs in some shops).

[Cyclone]

So you're OK with the principle of benefit claimants wearing yellow patches it's just you don't think it's workable?

 

I didn't say I was okay with it, I just pointed out why it wouldn't solve the problem that you claimed it would solve.

[Cyclone]

W

The funny thing is, most people in the UK are on some form of benefit. And very few are NET tax payers.

This nonsense was disproven earlier, even if you count WTC it's <2% of the workforce claiming it.

[chem1st]

This nonsense was disproven earlier, even if you count WTC it's <2% of the workforce claiming it.

 

Your figures were incorrect and considered only one form of benefit, there are over 50!

 

You did not prove anything, you provided incorrect figures that you foolishly believed to be true. And you do not consider the other forms of benefit.

 

So yet again you are wrong.

 

Just like you were with land productivity vs labour productivity the time I introduced you to the inverse farm size productivity relationship.

 

In this thread the above relationship should be considered. And it should help to spell out why we have unemployment and inequality.

 

We deny people land.

 

Others a granted privileges of land. With that comes benefits in the form of cap payments and land monopoly over the serfs.

 

Land sits idle, men sit unemployed and total productivity and thus wealth as a whole of our society is retarded.

We could increase productivity, reduce unemployment, reduce inequality and increase living standards for all (bar those parasitic scum that have a current advantage that is of detriment to society as a whole).

[Leah-Lacie]

Your figures were incorrect and considered only one form of benefit, there are over 50!

 

You did not prove anything, you provided incorrect figures that you foolishly believed to be true. And you do not consider the other forms of benefit.

 

 

When you say 'forms of benefit' do you count child benefit, which is paid to anyone with children? I'd imagine that bumps the figures up lots.

[chem1st]

When you say 'forms of benefit' do you count child benefit, which is paid to anyone with children? I'd imagine that bumps the figures up lots.

 

Yes.

 

If I really wanted to be pedantic I'd also start classing the granting of landed privilege and other things. The majority of this country is running on subsidy in some shape or form. There is no free market, and the private sector is often nothing but.

 

The market itself, and for the most part, individual income is controlled by the state.