davi Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 People on benefits should be paid in Work Tokens; which can be exchanged for work, and then redeemed for money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag82 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 People on benefits are useful (exploited) pawns in our neo-liberal laissez-faire capitalist economy. An excess of labour ensures that the price of labour is minimized, the payments needed to maintain the reserved excess labour are paid for by those in work. We are essentially paying to regulate our own wages. Some benefits are of course paid to the working poor as well as the unemployed, a similar argument applies, low wages are effectively subsidised by the general working population. We subsidise the actual wage paid while keeping our own market rates low. The benefits may not be able to be met out of general taxation (payments made by workers to keep their own wages down), enter the uber-capitalists, huge sums are loaned at interest to Soverieign Governments by the markets the debts grow inexorably. In effect we have now leveraged our ability to undermine our own pay and conditions. Governments make a big deal come election time about full employment, apprenticeships, growing the economy, clamping down on scroungers and regulating immigration. All the main parties realise the masses are easily fooled (after all they pay to regulate their own wages !!!!) The unemployed are needed to minimize pay and conditions, working benefits are needed to ensure that workers pay each others wages rather than employers. Immigrants are needed to ensure that an excess of labour exists. Huge public spending bills that can't be paid for out of taxation, taxation can merely service the debt (for ever) ensures that the politicians backers get ever richer. The closer you are to the sharper end of the pile the better the laissez faire capitalist system is. We are to keep funding each others earnings in order to regulate our own and to fight like rats in a sack. Don't believe that you can't effectively fool all of the people all of the time. You are all living proof that the contrary is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddybare Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Agree with jag. There's only one thing left to do and that's revolt. Not in an occupy protest way for middle class students, more of a guillotine and lynch mob type of revolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I have been thinking how the country can encourage people back to work rather than people accepting the current system due to the financial rewards of the current system. As a tax payer it really annoys me (and this is my opinion which i am entitled to) that individuals on benefits (and I must add not all but a large proportion) are able to drive new cars, holiday abroad each year, drink alcohol and smoke all at the tax payers expense when the benefit system was designed to provide essential living support. I am working guy having to work overtime to subsidise my wage (and I have a good job paid half decent money) in order to provide a little extra for my family ie holidays etc. I don't drive a new car, don't smoke (not that i want to) and have to limit the amount of time we as a family or my wife and I go out. However, a lot of people I interact with thro work and my social area drink most nights/afternoons or weekends, smoke 40+ a day (cant be cheap), holiday abroad each year and drive 2 to 3 year old cars, all payed for by the tax payer. I Was wondering what individuals think about benefits being paid in coupons which can be exchanged for essential foods, clothing housing and bus fares etc for families rather than the current system of cash handouts. This way society can be assured that the benefits that people recieive are utilised appropriatly. If an individual has a burning desire to buy cigarettes, alcohol, holidays etc then they can be given the option of exchanging a proportion of the coupons for cash if they agree to working x amount of hours for the community they reside in supervised by the local council. Im sure this will help to encourage people to work and have a little more self respect for themselves. What are other peoples thoughts on this. I am not trying to start an us against them argument. It is just my opinion. If you are working than I hope you have the fortune of being made redundant to get first hand experience of the benefits system to find out how hard it is. I have experienced it and it isn't no easy ride plus working people also get benefits to top up their wage so they can afford to live. To save money there are plenty of other ways and it's not the benefits that need to be given in coupons it's the cost of living that rises more than peoples wage's that needs sorting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Your figures were incorrect and considered only one form of benefit, there are over 50! You did not prove anything, you provided incorrect figures that you foolishly believed to be true. And you do not consider the other forms of benefit. So yet again you are wrong. ...removed random rant about land You chose WTC as the benefit which working people receive. Maybe you should provide some data though as to how many people are in receipt of these 50 benefits since you're so sure. As usual you're big on rhetoric but light on facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.B.Yaffle Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 If people are claiming JSA, how much do they get? I think it's around £50 per week for a single person or £100 for a couple. If they get cash they can budget according to their income, ie buying fruit and veg cheaply at the market, buying clothes and other essentials via Sheffield Forum, car boot sales, eBay, or charity shops. Would all these places accept coupons? I very much doubt it. If some claimants are getting more than they should be entitled to by fiddling the system, then that is the problem rather than it being cash versus coupons. It seems likely that a coupon system would make genuine claimants worse off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 My misgivings are these:- Where would the coupons be exchanged for the food? Would the claimant using the coupons be able to shop around, and get the best price for their veg, or will the coupons only be valid in the most expensive shops? How would the coupons be used to pay for necesities like the water bills, or gas and electricity bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hardie Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Agree with jag. There's only one thing left to do and that's revolt. Not in an occupy protest way for middle class students, more of a guillotine and lynch mob type of revolt. Careful mate, people were put away not so long ago for posting on the internet what was seen as incitement to riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Careful mate, people were put away not so long ago for posting on the internet what was seen as incitement to riot. Aye, they were denied the right to free speech. Over here they are 'terrorists', but in foreign sovereign states that we invade they are 'freedom figthers'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_W Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Ladsbrokes, William Hill etc ..... do coupons, not sure about Wetherspoons though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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