Aren't the financial problems of Greece etc, like putting the boot in?

[andygardener]

Hmmm, the best thing for these countries is for them to partially default. Their debts can never be fully repaid and it's wrong for them to drag tens of millions of citizens into the process of even trying. Start again. Start again now.

 

There was a programme on BBC2 last night that made it very clear that various Eurozone countries had a crazy debt binge since 2001. But it was also clear that they shouldn't have been lent the money on such scales. There is blame on both sides - countries and banks. The banks that lent are virtually criminal enterprises and the governments of the various countries were often corrupt as well. Wipe the slate clean and let ordinary people get on with their lives - the citizens didn't choose this and would never have chosen this if they had known what their leaders and the banks were capable of, and what the outcome would be.

 

To be fair it's ordinary people that have had the borrowed money chucked at them. The public sector payroll has been in part met by the endless borrowing so while the governments who issued the bonds are mainly to blame the Greek people must shoulder their share of the blame.

 

As for the banks, clearly their shareholders will not be pleased with them if they have made unwise investments, however they can hardly be held accountable for the Greek government issuing bonds can they?

 

Default is inevitable though so best to get it done quickly and see if they can survive with a devalued drachma.

[studentbob]

A trade ban on Greek goods, and the long-term, semi-permanent collapse of their economy.

 

Maybe. Would that be a decision made by the WTO?

 

And what about the EU. Do you think Greece would be forced to leave, or at least be suspended until they agree to conform?

 

And if they did leave, would it not be an opportunity for someone like China to invest and gain a stronghold in the heart of Eurasia.

 

I know it sounds a bit far fetched, but given that the US are expanding both economically and militarily in China's backyard, why not.

[studentbob]

To be fair it's ordinary people that have had the borrowed money chucked at them. The public sector payroll has been in part met by the endless borrowing so while the governments who issued the bonds are mainly to blame the Greek people must shoulder their share of the blame.

 

As for the banks, clearly their shareholders will not be pleased with them if they have made unwise investments, however they can hardly be held accountable for the Greek government issuing bonds can they?

 

Default is inevitable though so best to get it done quickly and see if they can survive with a devalued drachma.

 

I agree that we/they should all bear some responsibility. But that doesn't mean that all responsibility is equal. Governments were being advised by the likes of Goldman Sachs on complex structures that no one could easily explain. They bought a dud, and are paying the price now.

The problem I have is, why are these practices still going on?

In America I have seen bankers up before their federal committee (can't remember what it's called) saying that they can't explain complex derivatives because no one would understand them. They plead a kind of innocent ignorance whilst maintaining that they are the only ones who can be trusted with such things. Like they are sorry about the situation but there's not much they can do except try and manage the system the best they can.

 

In Britain, of course, it's much worse. We don't even bother with pretending to be concerned. We allow re hypothecation which is why all the big money goes through London. And also why Cameron wont entertain any regulation from Europe.

[WeX]

I have no time for Greece as like others have said, their pigeons are coming home to roost, but I also have no time for the banks that have lent them money at exaggerated interest rates. They knew the risk and they took it, now I hope our governments do not cave in and under write these loans with tax payers money!

[Uptowngirl]

Hmmm, the best thing for these countries is for them to partially default. Their debts can never be fully repaid and it's wrong for them to drag tens of millions of citizens into the process of even trying. Start again. Start again now.

 

There was a programme on BBC2 last night that made it very clear that various Eurozone countries had a crazy debt binge since 2001. But it was also clear that they shouldn't have been lent the money on such scales. There is blame on both sides - countries and banks. The banks that lent are virtually criminal enterprises and the governments of the various countries were often corrupt as well. Wipe the slate clean and let ordinary people get on with their lives - the citizens didn't choose this and would never have chosen this if they had known what their leaders and the banks were capable of, and what the outcome would be.

 

That is all very well, but a default has to be paid by someone. To my mind the person borrowing too much had the benefit of spending the money, hece the number of Porsches and yachts currently on sale in Greece.

 

Greece and Greek people simply walking away from their debts puts other banks at risk. The UK banking crisis was caused when the housing bubble in the USA burst and folk in negative equity simply walked from their debts. We are paying for that now. I for one wouldn't be too happy about picking up the tab for some Greek buying a Porsche and a 60 inch plasma telly.

[I1L2T3]

That is all very well, but a default has to be paid by someone. To my mind the person borrowing too much had the benefit of spending the money, hece the number of Porsches and yachts currently on sale in Greece.

 

Greece and Greek people simply walking away from their debts puts other banks at risk. The UK banking crisis was caused when the housing bubble in the USA burst and folk in negative equity simply walked from their debts. We are paying for that now. I for one wouldn't be too happy about picking up the tab for some Greek buying a Porsche and a 60 inch plasma telly.

 

We're all going to end up paying for it in some way or other. There is no miracle solution further down the line and there is no point pretending that there is. Let's get the defaults done and dusted and move on, let the bad banks die and regulate the hell out the ones that are left so they never ever get the chance to do this again. Then we can start cleaning up our politics, media, police, judiciary. There is no way things can continue as they are.

[Uptowngirl]

We're all going to end up paying for it in some way or other. There is no miracle solution further down the line and there is no point pretending that there is. Let's get the defaults done and dusted and move on, let the bad banks die and regulate the hell out the ones that are left so they never ever get the chance to do this again. Then we can start cleaning up our politics, media, police, judiciary. There is no way things can continue as they are.

 

To be perfectly honest I really don't feel inclied to put my hand in my pocket to pay the bills of people who have lived beyond their means whilst sleeping half the day. Greece has loads of assetts. Around £4000,000,000 in gold reserves for a start. They should pay their bills by selling what they have. If that runs out then the Eurozone, which allowed them to get into this mess can pick up the tab. I don't see why we need to be involved at all unless they want to sell us the Parthenon.