Is there any wonder some of our young don’t want to work.

[Cyclone]

It's certainly difficult to legally close this way of avoiding paying tax, but it's also quite clearly morally wrong for companies to avoid tax in this way.

It can only be stopped through international agreement though and the tax havens have nothing to gain by complying.

[I1L2T3]

Most of the administrate costs would be borne by the people that already administer the benefits system and police it; there would also be plenty of unemployed people that couldn’t do any labouring but could do administration.

 

For the work that needs doing just go outside and walk the streets, the country is dump, there are plenty of jobs that need doing which councils can’t afford to do. At various times of the year farmers are desperate for labour, the police use volunteers, the public sector should be used to give work to those people claiming, charities need volunteers, I’m sure schools could use the right kind of volunteers.

 

 

Do it volantiering made easy Lifewise Volunteer.

 

Volunteering while looking for work.

There are around 914,000 volunteering opportunities available online in England.

 

 

Volunteering With Your Local Young Offenders Team

 

I think the current system of managing, tracking, policing the activities of jobseekers is a nonsense. It makes the service top-heavy and for the vast majority of jobseekers it is not needed and intrusive. Most people would be best left alone getting on with looking for work, at least for the first six months. A whole new bureacracy to find and allocate work placements and then to track and police activity would be a waste of public money. Ideologically maybe the idea has some traction but in practice it would most likely be an expensive and unmitigated disaster.

[MrSmith]

It's certainly difficult to legally close this way of avoiding paying tax, but it's also quite clearly morally wrong for companies to avoid tax in this way.

It can only be stopped through international agreement though and the tax havens have nothing to gain by complying.

 

It may well be morally wrong but I would hazard a guess that many people would avoid paying tax if they could and if it was legal.

Maybe when we get a government that stops squandering the taxes they receive, and a welfare system that rewards effort instead of idleness, people might be happier to pay tax.

[Cyclone]

Yeah, I suppose it would be difficult to explain to your major shareholders that you were paying an extra 18% in tax for moral reasons not legal ones.

 

This is about a business paying tax though, not individuals.

[MrSmith]

I think the current system of managing, tracking, policing the activities of jobseekers is a nonsense. It makes the service top-heavy and for the vast majority of jobseekers it is not needed and intrusive. Most people would be best left alone getting on with looking for work, at least for the first six months. A whole new bureacracy to find and allocate work placements and then to track and police activity would be a waste of public money. Ideologically maybe the idea has some traction but in practice it would most likely be an expensive and unmitigated disaster.

 

Why would it be a waste of public money gets the unemployed to do work that needs doing?

Is it not a waste of money to pay someone for doing nothing when there is plenty of work that they could be doing.

Why don't you think the public sector would be capable of administering it?

Unemployed would be much lower because more people would find a job, this would result in public money being saved.

[MrSmith]

Yeah, I suppose it would be difficult to explain to your major shareholders that you were paying an extra 18% in tax for moral reasons not legal ones.

 

This is about a business paying tax though, not individuals.

 

 

No actually the discussion was about people refusing to work because some rich people legally avoid paying tax.

[Cyclone]

This bit is about businesses paying tax though, individuals can't avoid tax by using Irish and Dutch shell companies.

[Sidecut]

It's certainly difficult to legally close this way of avoiding paying tax, but it's also quite clearly morally wrong for companies to avoid tax in this way.

It can only be stopped through international agreement though and the tax havens have nothing to gain by complying.

If an independent accountant were to look at the books they would be able to see what is being done and the government could/should plug the loophole.

[Sidecut]

Most of the administrate costs would be borne by the people that already administer the benefits system and police it; there would also be plenty of unemployed people that couldn’t do any labouring but could do administration.

So are you saying that at this moment in time there are loads of spare staff sat on their backsides twiddling their thumbs waiting for someone like you to come up with a plan that can employ them.

I love to see their faces if you walked into the office telling the the existing staff that you're doubling their workload.

You haven't really thought this out have you?

[I1L2T3]

Why would it be a waste of public money gets the unemployed to do work that needs doing?

Is it not a waste of money to pay someone for doing nothing when there is plenty of work that they could be doing.

Why don't you think the public sector would be capable of administering it?

Unemployed would be much lower because more people would find a job, this would result in public money being saved.

 

I think the public sector resources would be better used on other things than administering a system that forces people to do voluntary work. The exisiting system is too expensive and I would like to see it reduced not expanded.

 

One fundamental flaw at the heart of your proposal seems to be an assumption that all people in receipt of benefits, e.g. JSA, are sitting on their backsides lazing about. Many people on JSA will be working hard to find a job. I don't think you can make everybody on JSA a target for your forced work plan and most of them should be left to get on with their job search.

 

The other furndamental flaw seems to be getting people to do work that would otherwise be done by paid public sector employees. The obvious problem is that it could end with jobs that were previousdly paid being converted into forced volunteer schemes. Then perverse incentives could be created, e.g. to keep people on benefit to so they can be forced volunteers.