Is there any wonder some of our young don’t want to work.

[MrSmith]

It needs expensive equipment that isn't installed in these factories. It needs technically capable people and management, who (probably) aren't the ones out of work and claiming benefits.

 

You're correct about the raw materials (although there may be increased transport costs) and the work force. I think you've probably chosen a bad example due to the high cost of setting up the plant.

 

I chose the perfect example, we have energy companies with the knowhow, we even have companies in the UK that manufacture solar panels, we had a government that invested in solar, and a government that still invests, we are capable of manufacturing any of the machines required, we have empty factories waiting to be put into use and a work force waiting to be trained. We even have milionairs that would probably have loved to invest in such a sceam. Despite all that we chose the easy route of buying most of the panels from China, and to top it off they used dirty energy to make them. It could have all been done here for less if only we had a government willing to use the resources at hand.

[Cyclone]

There's nothing stopping people investing in PV manufacturing at the moment. Clearly anyone who's looked at it has realised that we can't make a profit from it.

[MrSmith]

There's nothing stopping people investing in PV manufacturing at the moment. Clearly anyone who's looked at it has realised that we can't make a profit from it.

 

Who said anything about making a profit?

We don’t make a profit for the panels we pay for that are fitted to people’s houses.

We don’t make a profit from people being paid to do nothing.

 

We the workers already buy them and pay for them to be installed; we already pay for people to do nothing which is senseless. I'm talking about using what we already pay for to manufacture them here. Clearly a company cannot make a profit because their labour costs exceed the cost of labour in China, but as we already pay people to do nothing, we should pay them to do something, what we already pay wouldn't increase but we would have something at the end of it.

[Mecky]

Its appears to be you who hasn’t read what I wrote, we buy stuff from China, they pay their workers for making that stuff, we have a massive workforce here getting paid for doing nothing, we have factories empty and producing nothing, anything that they produce could be sold very cheaply because whether they work or not they get paid under the current system. Solar panels are a good example, we buy them from China, the material cost the same wherever they are made. If the unemployed made them, there would be no additional labour costs; they could then be fitted to more properties at a much lower cost. The problem is that many feel that it is unethical to make someone work for money and think we should be all entitled to free money for doing sod all.

 

Foreign worker come here apparently to do jobs that the unemployed won’t do, if the unemployed had no choice but to do them there would be no reason for the foreign worker to come here.

 

Which are short-term measures, the type of work people can only put up with for about a year because the wages are so bad, but probably better than in their own country. Besides, such jobs you are talking about will probably be done by foreign students because they wouldn't get a work permit otherwise.

 

Most British people or settled people would only take this type of work as a second household income and probably just to pay for a family holiday, which in my view is appalling behaviour, considering that some people starve on the dole. There are lots of people in our office who just work two days a week doing just this, I would rather the bosses get rid of them and employ fewer full-time workers. Other than that, if you lived alone, would you work for £200 pw takehome if your rent was £100+ per week? No, then why should anyone else?

[Cyclone]

Who said anything about making a profit?

I don't think you'll get many millionaires investing if there's no profit to be made.

We don’t make a profit for the panels we pay for that are fitted to people’s houses.

Who doesn't? Someone does.

We don’t make a profit from people being paid to do nothing.

That's true.

 

We the workers already buy them and pay for them to be installed; we already pay for people to do nothing which is senseless. I'm talking about using what we already pay for to manufacture them here. Clearly a company cannot make a profit because their labour costs exceed the cost of labour in China, but as we already pay people to do nothing, we should pay them to do something, what we already pay wouldn't increase but we would have something at the end of it.

So who's going to pay for the complex plant required to produce them?

[MrSmith]

Which are short-term measures, the type of work people can only put up with for about a year because the wages are so bad, but probably better than in their own country. Besides, such jobs you are talking about will probably be done by foreign students because they wouldn't get a work permit otherwise.

Which is why the jobs should be done by the unemployed, incentivise them into taking the jobs, and incentivise the employers to train and employ them. The result would be a lower cost for the welfare system, less demand for housing resulting in a lower cost, less stress on the NHS and other publicly funded services as a result of the lower population.

 

Most British people or settled people would only take this type of work as a second household income and probably just to pay for a family holiday, which in my view is appalling behaviour, considering that some people starve on the dole. There are lots of people in our office who just work two days a week doing just this, I would rather the bosses get rid of them and employ fewer full-time workers. Other than that, if you lived alone, would you work for £200 pw takehome if your rent was £100+ per week? No, then why should anyone else?

 

 

If the unemployed had to work for their benefits they would have the incentive to take these jobs.

[MrSmith]

I don't think you'll get many millionaires investing if there's no profit to be made.

Who doesn't? Someone does.

That's true.

So who's going to pay for the complex plant required to produce them?

 

I'm not talking about them investing money, which will come from the tax payer as it does now, but I'm sure some would invest their expertise.

 

The profits from solar are because of the subsidy given by the government and the extra every person has to pay of energy. A few benefit whilst everyone else pays.

 

The tax payer already pays from the panels, but for most we don't see the benefits, so instead of paying for panels we pay for the facility to manufacture them in the knowledge that they are made in an environmentally friendly way, unlike the Chinese panels that are made using dirty energy.

 

The workforce is one of the major costs in manufacturing and we already pay that money out to people for doing nothing.

[Cyclone]

Not to ignore the rest of your post, but what is the source of clean energy in the UK we'll use to make these panels?

 

And whilst you've identified that we can get cheap labour from the unemployed, given the massive investment required to actually get the plants up and running, how do you think this saves the tax payer money?

[I1L2T3]

It needs expensive equipment that isn't installed in these factories. It needs technically capable people and management, who (probably) aren't the ones out of work and claiming benefits.

 

You're correct about the raw materials (although there may be increased transport costs) and the work force. I think you've probably chosen a bad example due to the high cost of setting up the plant.

 

MrSmith is not correct re: raw materials. He couldn't be more wrong in the present economic circumstances.

 

We can't always buy at the same price. We have a weak pound and that increases the costs of imports for manufacturers in this country. As for solar cell manufacture the technology and materials required are similar to that for computers. Rare earth minerals are needed and China has almost total control of the supply. As well as the cost of setting up the plants to produce what are akin to micro-electronics the cost of importing the raw materials would be prohibitive. Even if the cost base could be driven down by making people work for peanuts then China could always just push up the price of, or restrict the supply of, the raw components and just kill any fledgling competitive industry here that way.

 

Cameron said only last week he was a supporter of globalisation. He doesn't want us competing and trying to make things the Chinese can already make for themselves anyway, at levels of technical maturity way beyond us. He wants us to sell products we still have an advantage at making.

 

Finally, just say we could manufacture solar panels, that we could compete with China doing that and that we could get people working on it for benefits then who is going to get the profits? Private industry?

[Mecky]

Which is why the jobs should be done by the unemployed, incentivise them into taking the jobs, and incentivise the employers to train and employ them. The result would be a lower cost for the welfare system, less demand for housing resulting in a lower cost, less stress on the NHS and other publicly funded services as a result of the lower population.

 

 

 

 

If the unemployed had to work for their benefits they would have the incentive to take these jobs.

 

I see, so this thread is your baby and you have to have the last say, right?