alchresearch Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Confudler and Walkley Dave, I'm not disagreeing with you. I did say in my post that I thought Excel's actions are underhand, but what hasn't yet been answered are the other points. I've been driving some 20 odd years and never had a ticket. When I go to somewhere like Meadowhall RP I can clearly see signs attached to lampposts and at the entrance and I think "hmmm, better read the small print just in case there are caveats or something else I should be aware of - after all someone has taken the time to put the signs up, maybe I should take the time to read it". Would anyone park on a street without reading the signs? Would they complain the same or try and get out of paying if they got a ticket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT70 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Confudler and Walkley Dave, I'm not disagreeing with you. I did say in my post that I thought Excel's actions are underhand, but what hasn't yet been answered are the other points. I've been driving some 20 odd years and never had a ticket. When I go to somewhere like Meadowhall RP I can clearly see signs attached to lampposts and at the entrance and I think "hmmm, better read the small print just in case there are caveats or something else I should be aware of - after all someone has taken the time to put the signs up, maybe I should take the time to read it". Would anyone park on a street without reading the signs? Would they complain the same or try and get out of paying if they got a ticket? fully agree, never had one myself, probably never willl, but the last months cases on radio sheffield and in the star was entirely not the fault of the motorist. both cases were people who popped into the berkley centre, shopped and left in 20-30mins. later on that night they came back for a second visit, many hrs later. (one was a taxi dropping people off!) both cases ended up with £100 invoices levied and their please ignored until the star shamed excel/vcs into dropping the case. otherwise they were still intent on shipping out made up invoices, bailiff letters/solicitor letters etc as the initial queries by the motorists were refused. it was pay up or go to court. the parking company later begrudgingly admitted the cameras may have been obscured by other motorists tailgating them out of the car park so it never picked up that they had left. total disgrace of a company using these tactics, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the motorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confudler Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 @ alchresearch I don't dispute that private land owners have a right to want their parking spaces used appropriately. Some years ago I paid a charge issued for parking at Meadowhal RP - I had used it whilst going to the arena and the charge was proportionate (not much more than if I'd paid for Arena parking). I was annoyed because it was dark and I hadn't seen the signs, but on the other hand I had received something of value (arena CP charges for it) for nothing (I didn't visit the businesses on the RP). You ask if anyone would park on the streets without looking at the signs. However this is not an equivalent situation. The car parks being managed are customer car parks for retail businesses. Such car parks have traditionally been free to use and remain mostly free to use for a limited period. I don't know of any retail business that wishes/intends to profit from their parking, they simply want to provide it as a convenience to their customers. This is a completely different model to a pay-per-use Car Park or council parking controls. It is not therefore reasonable to assume that everyone reads and understands the T&Cs of such car parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkley Dave Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Confudler and Walkley Dave, I'm not disagreeing with you. I did say in my post that I thought Excel's actions are underhand, but what hasn't yet been answered are the other points. I've been driving some 20 odd years and never had a ticket. When I go to somewhere like Meadowhall RP I can clearly see signs attached to lampposts and at the entrance and I think "hmmm, better read the small print just in case there are caveats or something else I should be aware of - after all someone has taken the time to put the signs up, maybe I should take the time to read it". Would anyone park on a street without reading the signs? Would they complain the same or try and get out of paying if they got a ticket? The major difference between parking on the street and parking in a private facility is that one is legally allowed to fine people and the other must go through a court to enforce a civil contract. Since that contract is worth very little in monetary terms the Private Parking Companies pretend to have "fines" However - when I read a sign in a street it take seconds. This is because the designs, sizes and words are regulated by statute and should the signs not follow this then they are invalid. At Private Parking facilities the signs are often high on lampposts, and the terms and conditions are often in tiny print, sometimes unreadable because of the height and size. Excel/VCS have just lost two cases one in Stockport and one in Sheffield - because the signage was inadequate. This was before the consideration of contract was taken up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Private parking enforcement companies have got themselves a bad name, in many cases rightly so. However what can businesses do to stop people parking in their car park now? If they can't charge people who park there and don't use their shop what are they supposed to do. If I had a car park for a small shop I would be very annoyed if people couldn't visit my shop because the car park was full of people who were shopping elsewhere. Do people just have to accept this now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123sheffield Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 fully agree, never had one myself, probably never willl, but the last months cases on radio sheffield and in the star was entirely not the fault of the motorist. both cases were people who popped into the berkley centre, shopped and left in 20-30mins. later on that night they came back for a second visit, many hrs later. (one was a taxi dropping people off!) both cases ended up with £100 invoices levied and their please ignored until the star shamed excel/vcs into dropping the case. otherwise they were still intent on shipping out made up invoices, bailiff letters/solicitor letters etc as the initial queries by the motorists were refused. it was pay up or go to court. the parking company later begrudgingly admitted the cameras may have been obscured by other motorists tailgating them out of the car park so it never picked up that they had left. total disgrace of a company using these tactics, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the motorist. I am currently the latest target of this fiasco!! I popped into tesco for 5 minutes then returned later in the evening to go to pizza hut and have now been sent a pcn for overstaying . I emailed them explaining that I had actually left, but they are refusing point blank saying they can't se any evidence of me leaving, I'm not sure what to do. Do I leave it or should I respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I am currently the latest target of this fiasco!! I popped into tesco for 5 minutes then returned later in the evening to go to pizza hut and have now been sent a pcn for overstaying . I emailed them explaining that I had actually left, but they are refusing point blank saying they can't se any evidence of me leaving, I'm not sure what to do. Do I leave it or should I respond. Leave it. If you've offered a reasonable explanation and they're being shirty let them take you to court and you can show the judge the evidence. Its their time and money they're wasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 At Private Parking facilities the signs are often high on lampposts, and the terms and conditions are often in tiny print, sometimes unreadable because of the height and size. Excel/VCS have just lost two cases one in Stockport and one in Sheffield - because the signage was inadequate. This was before the consideration of contract was taken up. Whereabouts? If you look on Google Streetview the Berkeley Precinct signs are very hard to miss: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Ecclesall+Rd,+Sheffield+S11,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=53.369676,-1.493735&spn=0.005076,0.013937&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=20.6667,57.084961&vpsrc=6&geocode=FalZLgMdSy_p_w&hnear=Ecclesall+Rd,+Sheffield+S11,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.369676,-1.493735&panoid=3vk6RnkDSgdHG9fKxys1Ww&cbp=12,179.16,,1,3.71 They're certainly no higher than the bus lane sign on the road. Same at Meadowhall Retail Park: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Meadowhall+Retail+Park,+Attercliffe+Common,+Sheffield,+S9+2YZ,+UK&hl=en&ll=53.405183,-1.415541&spn=0.010144,0.027874&sll=53.369676,-1.493735&sspn=0.005102,0.013937&vpsrc=0&hnear=Meadowhall+Retail+Park,+Attercliffe+Common,+Sheffield,+South+Yorkshire+S9+2YZ,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.405128,-1.415503&panoid=x94c0yBz6WavzIjWBKES0g&cbp=12,64.9,,1,0.12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back9Kev Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 If I go into a car park that charges I pay for a ticket. If I didn't pay and got a penalty I would feel inclined to pay it However A couple of years ago I regularly parked at an Excel managed car park in Chesterfiled (Brewery Street). Day rate of £2.50 compared to the station was good value. One day the ticket fell off the windscreen (clearly visible on car seat) and I received a notice. I refused to pay and went through the process of letters and demands before they got bored and eventually gave up Contact to Excel was initially through a very expensive premium rate line until I was told that they are legally obliged to give you a "normal" telephone number. My advice is the same as all the others - if you feel you have a genuine case don't pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confudler Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Whereabouts? If you look on Google Streetview the Berkeley Precinct signs are very hard to miss: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Ecclesall+Rd,+Sheffield+S11,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=53.369676,-1.493735&spn=0.005076,0.013937&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=20.6667,57.084961&vpsrc=6&geocode=FalZLgMdSy_p_w&hnear=Ecclesall+Rd,+Sheffield+S11,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.369676,-1.493735&panoid=3vk6RnkDSgdHG9fKxys1Ww&cbp=12,179.16,,1,3.71 They're certainly no higher than the bus lane sign on the road. Same at Meadowhall Retail Park: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Meadowhall+Retail+Park,+Attercliffe+Common,+Sheffield,+S9+2YZ,+UK&hl=en&ll=53.405183,-1.415541&spn=0.010144,0.027874&sll=53.369676,-1.493735&sspn=0.005102,0.013937&vpsrc=0&hnear=Meadowhall+Retail+Park,+Attercliffe+Common,+Sheffield,+South+Yorkshire+S9+2YZ,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.405128,-1.415503&panoid=x94c0yBz6WavzIjWBKES0g&cbp=12,64.9,,1,0.12 That's very interesting! The current VCS signage is significantly smaller and higher. They have placed a bigger one at the entrance (where no-one could possibly read it without parking over the pavement for 5 minutes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.