Gamadar Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I like that analogy. Awww....you like apologies, that is lovely. I shall apologise just to make you feel good as I am totally selfless. I am really sorry that you are an idiot. whoops....I misread analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Jay Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Some debt has already started to be written off, e.g. Greek sovereign haircuts Good, the Greeks should use less expensive barbers in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimalJay Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Does anyone even know what a derivative is and could they even say it in plain English? Also, how much money is there in the world which is not even physical currency, meaning numbers on a screen been shifted and shared and not even worth the screens they are displayed on let alone the stocks and shares markets, bloody hell, what a loony tune idea the invention of the stock market is, numbers going up and down all day long every single day of every single year, what a dead end way to top yourself working on that useless thing which of course has no relevant contribution to the real world us human beings live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Good, the Greeks should use less expensive barbers in future. They should get the sheep shears out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Does anyone even know what a derivative is and could they even say it in plain English? Also, how much money is there in the world which is not even physical currency, meaning numbers on a screen been shifted and shared and not even worth the screens they are displayed on let alone the stocks and shares markets, bloody hell, what a loony tune idea the invention of the stock market is, numbers going up and down all day long every single day of every single year, what a dead end way to top yourself working on that useless thing which of course has no relevant contribution to the real world us human beings live in. Have you ever seen the film about Nick Leeson that starred Ewan McGregor? That's all about derivatives. Basically, it is betting on whether the value of something will go up or down. The stock market had a purpose once, to allow companies to borrow to invest. Now it just seems to be a huge betting shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 The stock market had a purpose once, to allow companies to borrow to invest. Now it just seems to be a huge betting shop. Couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamadar Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Have you ever seen the film about Nick Leeson that starred Ewan McGregor? That's all about derivatives. Basically, it is betting on whether the value of something will go up or down. The stock market had a purpose once, to allow companies to borrow to invest. Now it just seems to be a huge betting shop. Why do you make me feel like Jack Nicholson in "One flew over the cuckoos nest ?" ......STOP IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Does anyone even know what a derivative is and could they even say it in plain English? It's a bet on an actual future price of a thing. Hence derivative as the bets outcome derives from the actual value of the thing in question. There are many variations. The original idea was that they be used as hedges by producers, so if you produce for example wheat, you place a moderate bet that the harvest will be poor and prices will thus rise, so if you have a poor harvest then your bet pays out and you are compensated for your poor crop. If you have a good harvest then happy days, you lose the bet but you have a good harvest anyway. Basically a form of insurance for producers and extractors of all manner of crops and raw materials. Unfortunately the way the market went was away from having to be a producer/extractor of the underlying goods to place the bet in line with your likely output, so now anyone can bet on the price of the goods, so the ammount of money bet far exceeds the value of the goods. So instead of a bad grain harvest in Oklahoma resulting in a stabilising payout for farmers there, it could now have billions of dollars riding on it worldwide, so a relatively minor local issue can turn into a global financial crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimalJay Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 It's a bet on an actual future price of a thing. Hence derivative as the bets outcome derives from the actual value of the thing in question. There are many variations. The original idea was that they be used as hedges by producers, so if you produce for example wheat, you place a moderate bet that the harvest will be poor and prices will thus rise, so if you have a poor harvest then your bet pays out and you are compensated for your poor crop. If you have a good harvest then happy days, you lose the bet but you have a good harvest anyway. Basically a form of insurance for producers and extractors of all manner of crops and raw materials. Unfortunately the way the market went was away from having to be a producer/extractor of the underlying goods to place the bet in line with your likely output, so now anyone can bet on the price of the goods, so the ammount of money bet far exceeds the value of the goods. So instead of a bad grain harvest in Oklahoma resulting in a stabilising payout for farmers there, it could now have billions of dollars riding on it worldwide, so a relatively minor local issue can turn into a global financial crisis. So in other words, all of this was and is designed to be as confusing and complicated as possible and therefore the average Joe on the street would not have a clue how it all works, meaning these governments and businesses can get away with blue murder right in front of our eyes and nobody knows anything what they're doing, what an evil master plan that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 We haven't had a war in Europe (Balkans aside) for more than 60 years. That had never happened in the two thousand years before the EU. For all its many many faults it has kept the continent together peacefully and you cannot put a price on that. Did we have wars in europe when the EU was the steel and coal pact? Or the EEC? When a handful of states belonged? No. So logic would suggest that the EU isn't what has prevented wars in Europe. Give the credit to NATO and I'd say you're on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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