Shame and Religion

[AbdullaJones]

Last night i got into a conversation with another member.

I commented that some people bring shame on their families and themselves.

It was suggested on that now deleted thread that shame is purely a religious thing and if you feel shame for someone elses actions then you're stuck in the dark ages and defiantly religious.

So is that the case? Can only religious people feel the sense of shame and if so is it a bad thing and can the atheists learn something from the religious?

[Suffragette1]

The answer is 'no'. Check out the Hitler's Children thread in the Entertainment Section.

 

I don't know which thread you're referring to, but anyone, religious or otherwise, can feel a sense of shame by association, whether familial or other.

[quisquose]

I can only echo what Suffragette1 said, but add that one of the problems with religion is that it can add "shame" when there should be none.

[Vague_Boy]

Can only religious people feel the sense of shame

You talk as if atheists were some kind of different species. Like Vulcans.

 

The perpetrators of the Spanish Inquisition certainly felt no shame.

 

Catholic Hernán Cortés felt no shame when he told the Aztecs that Pope Alexander VI had given their lands to Spain (at the Treaty at Tordesillas in 1494). Or when he wiped out their civilization.

 

The Pole clearly feels no shame at the vast wealth of the Catholic Church.

 

The Vatican Billions

 

Clearly he's never read the bit in the Bible that says

 

"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Mt. 19:24)

 

Or

 

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth" (Mt. 6:19).

 

Or

 

"But if someone who is supposed to be a Christian has money enough to live well, and sees a brother in need, and won't help him--how can God's love be within him?" (1 John 3:17)

 

Or

 

"He who shuts his ears to the cries of the poor will be ignored in his own time of need" (Prov. 21:13)

 

A Roman Catholic bank in Germany has apologised after admitting it bought stocks in defence, tobacco and birth control companies.

 

Der Spiegel newspaper discovered the bank had invested 580,000 euros (£495,310, $826,674) in British arms company BAE Systems.

LINK

 

Maybe they said "alms for the poor" and his holiness is a bit deaf?

 

And of course, no mention of the Catholic Church is complete without mentioning their army of kiddie fiddlers, whom the church protects.

 

Vatican tried to protect paedophile priest, Dublin abuse report shows

 

Another paedophile priest is protected by the Catholic Church

 

Hundreds of suspected paedophile priests plague California

 

Religious people may not be able to teach me about shame but by golly they can teach me a lot about being shameless.

[Forumosaurus]

This is a stupid thread.

 

I'm not religious and I can feel shame so there's the answer to your question.

 

/thread.

[AbdullaJones]

This is a stupid thread.

 

I'm not religious and I can feel shame so there's the answer to your question.

 

/thread.

 

There are two possible answers.

You chose one of them.

That does not make it a stupid thread.

[Nataliie]

That thread was about something legal (albeit not moral) and the 'shame' it apparently brought on their families. Even though, the people doing it and their families weren't bothered by it.

 

So how can there be 'shame' in something that nobody is embarrassed or negatively affected by? Also, by something that was in no way 'shameful' and didn't even affect anybody else other than the parties involved?

 

You've edited the comment to suit your thread.

[AbdullaJones]

That thread was about something legal (albeit not moral) and the 'shame' it apparently brought on their families. Even though, the people doing it and their families weren't bothered by it.

 

So how can there be 'shame' in something that nobody is embarrassed or negatively affected by? Also, by something that was in no way 'shameful' and didn't even affect anybody else other than the parties involved?

 

You've edited the comment to suit your thread.

 

Please dont derail this thread like you did the other.

Other people are entitled to their say to i have edited nothing as you well know.

 

For the record SOME of the families were not bothered by it.

Not all the parents were asked

[Nataliie]

Please dont derail this thread like you did the other.

Other people are entitled to their say to i have edited nothing as you well know.

 

For the record SOME of the families were not bothered by it.

Not all the parents were asked

 

I haven't derailed the thread at all and you know it.

 

But why does it matter if the families weren't bothered? Why should it 'shame' them? It was the womans choice, nobody elses.

 

And actually my comment last night was that deeply religious countries tend to be the ones who say they feel 'shame' by the actions of their family members.

[Waldo]

Last night i got into a conversation with another member.

I commented that some people bring shame on their families and themselves.

It was suggested on that now deleted thread that shame is purely a religious thing and if you feel shame for someone elses actions then you're stuck in the dark ages and defiantly religious.

So is that the case? Can only religious people feel the sense of shame and if so is it a bad thing and can the atheists learn something from the religious?

 

Yes, a shame things can't be discussed and explored in a civil manner. But that's SF for you!

 

My view on all this, is that shame is a personal individual thing, as is pride and feeling good about yourself and your personal achievements in life. So, shame is linked to your own personal intentions, and actions.

 

I believe a person bears no shame for the actions of others, family or otherwise. However, if people in your family are acting unethically, harming others etc, and you turn a blind eye, then you do bear some responsibility in that you did nothing about that.

 

But say, a parent goes out in the night (while you are sleeping), and kills 100 people. There is no blame or guilt for you personally. Of course, there will be a lot of turmoil such an eventuality would put you through, but that's a different matter, it's not shame / guilt / responsibility.

 

The only bearing I can see that religion has on this; is where people blindly follow religious teachings, to the detriment of self-trust, discernment and introspection, etc. They buy in to go concepts such as family shame, without deeply investigating for themselves, the nature and validity of such an idea.

 

There is a big difference, between believing something because your religion claims it to be truth, and, fully and independently* examining the truth and validity of a thing for yourself.

 

* you are not independent if you desire to belong to a religion; desire for absolute self-honestly and truthfulness must trump any and all religious bent.