esme Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18179075 The government is looking into the possibility of changing the system where the head of the household fills in the electoral registration form so that everyone fills in their own, The idea seems to be that this will combat fraudulent entries. At the moment, the head of a household fills in the details of those living in a property but ministers want people to register individually to combat fraud.Which, ok, I can see reasons for and against, other systems might be better, there might not be as much fraud as estimated so the scheme may not be value for money, there's scope for debate. However the bit I don't like is this bit Those refusing could be issued with a "parking-style" fine by local councils.Pardon ? And also Ministers say penalties will be fixed and announced at a later date after a consultation. Mr Harper said he hoped the powers would be used sparingly: "The intention is that only those who refuse repeatedly can be fined. Hoped ? Like they hoped councils would exercise restraint when they acquired RIPA powers for example, that bit of hope went well. If you aren't on the electoral register you can't vote, as I understand it that's what it is, a register of the potential voters, council tax for example has a different register. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Politicalpartiesandelections/DG_073239 The electoral register - what it is The electoral register is a list of the names and addresses of everyone who is registered to vote. You aren’t automatically registered to vote, even if you pay Council Tax. Electoral registration is a separate process from Council Tax registration. Now some people don't want to bother with registering because they have no intention of exercising their right to vote. Personally I think this is a bit of a waste, but it's their choice. I totally disagree with any hint of fining people for not registering to vote though. From the actual bill http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2012-2013/0006/13006.pdf Interest and enforcement etc. 8 Regulations may— (a) allow interest to be charged on a civil penalty that is paid late; (b) allow an additional penalty to be imposed for late payment. 9 In this Schedule “civil penalty” includes any interest or additional penalty. 10 Regulations may make provision about the recovery of civil penalties by registration officers. 11 A civil penalty received by a registration officer is to be paid into the Consolidated Fund. Now this had it's second reading in the Commons on the 23rd of May and was passed to the Comittee stage, so it's probably a bit late to do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Those refusing could be issued with a "parking-style" fine by local councils. Why "Councils"? If there's a criminal offence, let HMG or the CPS prosecute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esme Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Personally, I have more of an issue with Those refusing could be issued with a "parking-style" fine than I have with who issues it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah-Lacie Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 "At the moment, the head of a household fills in the details of those living in a property but ministers want people to register individually to combat fraud." How will it combat fraud? |I don't get it. If the head of the household has someone living there who shouldn't be, they can just register to vote at the address where they should be living, as no doubt it is with family or friends where they lived before? If they are supposed to live anywhere at all, as opposed to having 'vanished' from the system. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esme Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Those refusing could be issued with a "parking-style" fine by local councils. Why "Councils"? If there's a criminal offence, let HMG or the CPS prosecute. I've had a thought about that, that perhaps you may be able to clarify as you have a much better understanding of the law that I have. Failure to register means the council issues a fine, which is a civil matter and not a criminal one, so there is no appeal via the courts. Non payment of this fine becomes a criminal matter and you can be taken to court for non payment of a fine, the grounds for the fine being issued will not be questioned just the non payment. Basically it's a way for government legislation to avoid being tested and possibly overturned by the legal system. There was a similar idea mooted for ID cards, failure to register would mean a fine against which there was no possible appeal, failure to pay the fine would make you a criminal for non payment of fines and nothing else. If HMG or the CPS get involved rather than the council then there would be either a right of appeal or possibly a way of questioning the legality of the fine being issued in a court and a subsequent danger of a precedent being set which goes against the legislation. Does that sound anything like ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Personally, I have more of an issue with Those refusing could be issued with a "parking-style" fine than I have with who issues it. It has always been a criminal offence to fail to, or to inaccurately, fill in an electoral registration form. The last time I noticed, the fine for that offence was £1,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 "At the moment, the head of a household fills in the details of those living in a property but ministers want people to register individually to combat fraud." How will it combat fraud? |I don't get it. If the head of the household has someone living there who shouldn't be, they can just register to vote at the address where they should be living, as no doubt it is with family or friends where they lived before? If they are supposed to live anywhere at all, as opposed to having 'vanished' from the system. Am I missing something? It won't prevent this type of fraud. It may (or may not!) discourage another type of fraud, where a householder makes up people who live with him so that he can cast multiple votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah-Lacie Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 It won't prevent this type of fraud. It may (or may not!) discourage another type of fraud, where a householder makes up people who live with him so that he can cast multiple votes. Ahhh never considered that - Surely they could do it with multiple forms though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Personally, I have more of an issue with Those refusing could be issued with a "parking-style" fine than I have with who issues it. And like parking fines, people will bin it cos it ain't enforcable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah-Lacie Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 And like parking fines, people will bin it cos it ain't enforcable. But it may be, if its issued by the council, and not by Excel parking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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