HighGreens35 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Deuteronomy 13:6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death I'm going again now, but that was too much temptation to resist. Btw, Muslims who follow the Quran wouldn't kill an apostate (as there is no instruction to do so in there) nor would they do other things like stone women to death (which actually contradicts the Quran). Some Christians and Jews do follow the Bible to the letter and I'm not sure how well you know the Bible but Jesus was a Jew so to say the old Testament is irrelevant to Christians is like saying a lollipop person doesn't need a stick, It's a bit silly. I will bite, do muslims chop/slice heads off and stone women/girls to death because they are following the example of muhammed? The Hadiths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Deuteronomy 13:6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death I'm going again now, but that was too much temptation to resist. Btw, Muslims who follow the Quran wouldn't kill an apostate (as there is no instruction to do so in there) nor would they do other things like stone women to death (which actually contradicts the Quran). Some Christians and Jews do follow the Bible to the letter and I'm not sure how well you know the Bible but Jesus was a Jew so to say the old Testament is irrelevant to Christians is like saying a lollipop person doesn't need a stick, It's a bit silly. And there we have it, proof all [the discussed] religions are as bad as each other, but does that mean we should allow them to continue to get away with these kinds of actions. Hell no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I'm not sure how well you know the Bible but Jesus was a Jew so to say the old Testament is irrelevant to Christians is like saying a lollipop person doesn't need a stick, It's a bit silly. I know the bible enough to know that Jesus opposed the jewish faith of the day openly and this is why he was killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I'd agree Islam is 600 years behind, and is acting like it. Tiny minorities, if you hadn't yet grasped, rule in Islam. Your whataboutism doesn't work here. Why is Islam 600 years behind Christianity though? Islam being 600 years newer than Christianity, it should be 600 years ahead. For example, forging a brand new religion right now wouldn't start off at the same point Christianity did and follow a same linear path of development, it would start circa 2000 years newer/ahead of Christianity. Perhaps that's a different philosophical debate to be had! -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I know the bible enough to know that Jesus opposed the jewish faith of the day openly and this is why he was killed. He didn't oppose the Jewish faith. He opposed the way some of its leaders had interpreted the texts and, from his point of view, were taking the law too literally at the detriment of meaning behind the law. That is far different from opposing the Jewish faith. And there we have it, proof all [the discussed] religions are as bad as each other, but does that mean we should allow them to continue to get away with these kinds of actions. Hell no![/Quote] I entirely agree, my point, from the beginning, is how we propose to deal with it. Do we say 'Islam is bad' and thus seek to eradicate it or do we work with Muslims to create positive change within the religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 [/b] I will bite, do muslims chop/slice heads off and stone women/girls to death because they are following the example of muhammed? The Hadiths? I have no idea why they chop heads off, I personally have never come across scripture that instructs them to do so. Stoning women, I believe comes from a Hadith, the excuse Muslims give when it's pointed out that this directly contradicts the Quran is that the Hadith was revealed before the Quran (which in itself is fair enough) but, and it is a huge but, the Quran should override it. From a scriptural perspective any Muslim that stones a woman for adultery is directly disobaying the Quran. In fact, from a technical perspective what they are doing is placing mans word above that of Allah, which if my memory serves me correctly would be a form of idolotry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Why is Islam 600 years behind Christianity though? Islam being 600 years newer than Christianity, it should be 600 years ahead. For example, forging a brand new religion right now wouldn't start off at the same point Christianity did and follow a same linear path of development, it would start circa 2000 years newer/ahead of Christianity. Perhaps that's a different philosophical debate to be had! -- Maybe because Christianity gave Islam a damn good hiding as an answer to it's existence. Christianity wasn't going to have some upstart coming along and rock their boat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighGreens35 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Maybe because Christianity gave Islam a damn good hiding as an answer to it's existence. Christianity wasn't going to have some upstart coming along and rock their boat? When was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighGreens35 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I have no idea why they chop heads off, I personally have never come across scripture that instructs them to do so. Stoning women, I believe comes from a Hadith, the excuse Muslims give when it's pointed out that this directly contradicts the Quran is that the Hadith was revealed before the Quran (which in itself is fair enough) but, and it is a huge but, the Quran should override it. From a scriptural perspective any Muslim that stones a woman for adultery is directly disobaying the Quran. In fact, from a technical perspective what they are doing is placing mans word above that of Allah, which if my memory serves me correctly would be a form of idolotry. THIS is interesting. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,995072-2,00.html So if Islam put to one side the Hadiths and Sharia, IT WOULD BECOME PURE ISLAM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 THIS is interesting. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,995072-2,00.html So if Islam put to one side the Hadiths and Sharia, IT WOULD BECOME PURE ISLAM? I don't know, I'm not in a position to tell someone else what texts they should use to make up their faith from, there are questionable Buddhist texts (from my point of view) but they make up a large part of what we in the west call 'Buddhism'. I think the hadith and Sunnah have to be considered more carefully than they are, I'm not familiar with all of the vast body of work that makes up these texts but there seems to be alot of scholars fighting amongst themselves to try to authenticate certain texts because they match what the respective scholar wants Islam to be. I think there should be (and can be) a quite simple test for alot of dodgy texts though, if it disagrees with the Quran, no matter how authentic it may be, it shouldn't be used to override the Quran. Islam has a quite well developed 'code of conduct' as far as war goes, many Christians brought those codes back with them after the crusades and it is these that are partially responsible for the idea of Chivalry. One thing is certain, these idiots who go out and mutilate bodies and murder people in the name of Islam are not acting in accordance with those codes of conduct, Saladin was highly thought of by his Christian enemies during the crusades. I'm not justifying war, I don't agree with it, I'm just putting things into context. Interestingly I once met a Muslim at an interfaith forum who didn't accept the Hadith or Sunnah in any way. He was lovely, and really, really humble. I don't know if Muslims should drop the Hadith and Sunnah, but it seems those that do lead much simpler, happier lives. btw, sorry for the length of the post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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