L00b Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Is morality a consideration when it comes to paying taxes?In the context you present (i.e. 'morality' of paying tax vs 'morality' of the uses made out of tax revenue), it cannot ever be a consideration, since the tax payer has no choice in the matter (of paying taxes), nor much at all in the way of a say (about how they are spent - short of using the ballot box, for all the good this will do in this specific context). After that, you could debate about the morality of using tax avoidance schemes - but all these do is fine-tune the amount to be paid. So, er...no: the State is not 'moral' or 'amoral' towards me when imposing how much tax is due and how tax revenue is spent, so why should I burden myself with non-reciprocal notions of morality? The State will tell me "you owe this", I will check and triple-check whether I need to pay all of it under State-enacted legislation or not, and pay what is actually due, whether it's the same, less or more - end of: that's about the extent of the 'social bargain' at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddybare Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Morality? Nope. Legal repercussions are though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 When the government stop wasting vast sums of money, stop giving it to people who refuse to work, starts taxing people fairly, people might stop looking for ways to avoid paying it. That's pretty much how I feel about tax as well. If the money was well spent, fairly distributed and wisely invested in well run services that benefit the nation I would be happy to hand over my fair share. But as long as vast amounts are being squandered on useless, unaccountable public services, the idle, the workshy, the stupid and illegal wars and money grubbing politicians I'll keep as much as I can in my pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincero dOro Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Thought Greece's problem was due to joining an inflated currency and attempting to move from third world Mediterranean to western European in a short space of time with no real GDP income base and attempting to plug the gaps with a huge cancerous public sector. Anyways it's not just their rich that aren't paying tax. It's all of them. If the newspapers are to be believed that is. I admit I don't like paying tax and wish I could get it down to 1%. It's a bitter pill to swallow, watching how it's squandered on wars, benefits, politicians etc. That's about right. Everyone borrowed money and got a better lifestyle on cheap interest rates. No one paid there taxes and the government weren't concerned because there was endless cheap loans. Then of course someone questioned Greece's ability to pay back all the borrowings, and the interest rates started to go up ...............and up...............and up. 28.6% at the last count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 So is he going to pay back all the tax he's avoided? The point is he hasn't actually done any more than the majority of people with lots of money. I nearly said he hasn't done anything wrong, what I meant was he hasn't done anything illegal, so it's the law that's wrong, or at least got too many loopholes for rich people to squeeze through. When it comes to the super rich (the 1%) they have whole teams of accountants coming up with new ways of avoiding tax, which is how you end up with a billionaire (can't remember his name) paying less tax than his cleaner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincero dOro Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 When it comes to the super rich (the 1%) they have whole teams of accountants coming up with new ways of avoiding tax, which is how you end up with a billionaire (can't remember his name) paying less tax than his cleaner. Undoubtably that goes on but it is hardly fair to blame the (1%). That's a myth that the left love to foster. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2107031/UK-Budget-2012-Top-1-earners-contribute-income-tax.html Top 1% of earners contribute almost a third of all the income tax paid into Treasury coffers By James Chapman UPDATED: 16:35, 27 February 2012 The highest-earning 1 per cent of Britons pay almost 30 per cent of all income taxes, according to research. The 308,000 on the 50p top rate – who earn more than £150,000 – pay £47billion a year to the Treasury. Since 2000, the share of tax paid by the highest earners has risen from 22.2 to 27.7 per cent. Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2107031/UK-Budget-2012-Top-1-earners-contribute-income-tax.html#ixzz1yQ9i8kc1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 The point is he hasn't actually done any more than the majority of people with lots of money. I nearly said he hasn't done anything wrong, what I meant was he hasn't done anything illegal, so it's the law that's wrong, or at least got too many loopholes for rich people to squeeze through. When it comes to the super rich (the 1%) they have whole teams of accountants coming up with new ways of avoiding tax, which is how you end up with a billionaire (can't remember his name) paying less tax than his cleaner. Which is very very wrong. Close the loopholes and knock the top rate of tax to 25% if you want. Having a top rate of 40 or 50% is pretty academic is nobody is paying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab-rat Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 It isn't. There are many alcoholics, undiagnosed, who buy their own. They truly have no choice. To get back on topic, Jimmy Carr has the choice to pay his fair share to society, he's chosen not to. I just hope that anyone who enjoys his output takes a similar moral stance and downloads his stuff for free. But that's not a fair comparison.......your example says if you don't pay full price then steal it (free download of copyright material)...... Jimmy has been paying tax albeit at a reduced or lower rate. A fair example would be to buy Jimmy's product at the lowest available price.... No one has had a pop at offshore companies who trade here & pay no corporation tax yet......will DC be consistent & start singling them out next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riche Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 How does putting your money an off shore account and taking it back as a loan on a interest rate much lower than the tax rate work?????. Is it not banks again that are creating the environment for this dodge to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 It isn't. There are many alcoholics, undiagnosed, who buy their own. They truly have no choice. To get back on topic, Jimmy Carr has the choice to pay his fair share to society, he's chosen not to. I just hope that anyone who enjoys his output takes a similar moral stance and downloads his stuff for free. I suspect his argument will be 'why should I? Nobody else does' meaning most of his friends and associates. It's only people who pay tax directly through PAYE who have no option but to pay their full whack. There's a whole respected industry dedicated to helping people avoid tax. They're called accountants. It's what they do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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