Britain is Full and over crowding?

[MrSmith]

Are you seriously asking why an aging population is a problem?!? As for the solution, I don't think that anybody has actually come up with a solution to the problem, only stop gaps.

 

Yes I’m asking a serious question, you think it’s a problem without a solution, and I don't think it’s a problem that isn't solved by making people work longer and getting our unemployed into work instead of letting them sit idle whilst immigrants come here on mass to do the jobs the unemployed should be doing.

[Badlittlepup]

Again it's fantasy and wishful thinking, yes wouldn't it be wonderful if there were an equal number of jobs to match the skills and number in the working population?

 

But it's never been so, how do you 'educate' and 'motivate' people who don't want to work or don't have the basic education or skills that employers want..in the right place at the right time? You only have to look at the use of the English language by some nationalists here to see what I mean-most of them can barely conjugate a sentence, yet they've benefited from a free education and growing up in a developed country, yet find themselves competing with foreigners.

 

Wouldn't it be wonderful if all mum's stayed at home, wore gingham pinnies and awaited the arrival of their rosy cheeked children from school with doorstep sandwiches and home made lemonade? Dad worked in the local factory, producing goods that there was a high demand for in the domestic population, without the competition from imports. This is the rose tinted ideology of the nationalist.

 

You're taking that to extremes. For a start nobody wants full employment because that's bad for business and the economy and would over inflate wages rather than bring them to a fair level so you can get rid of the idea of wanting an equal number of jobs to workers.

 

That's a very, very different proposition to saying that it's stupid to bring in more and more workers when there is already a surplus of workers here. Even highly skilled migrants are proving a problem as so many of them end up in unskilled jobs.

 

And it's not just nationalists who can't spell out of jobs, there are a myriad of people alongside people who saw their wages stagnate or fall with the uncontrolled introduction of workers from EU ascension states which Ed Milliband admitted was a mistake this morning.

 

What you're essentially saying is in itself discriminatory because you're saying if the people who are already here have been let down by a poor education system and can't find jobs with their skills which makes jobs worth having or with wages which will make them worth doing then we should write them off, dump them on the scrap heap of benefits and bring in immigrants who will have been given a better education elsewhere at no cost to us or who are willing to live in truly appalling conditions in order to get their hands on some western currency.

 

I include second and third generation immigrants in these groups you are so quick to write off. I wonder if any other group of people was written off as worthless, useless and worth abandoning you would be quite so tolerant? I ssupect you would be the first to cry racism.

[JackLakeland]

If everybody returned to the homes of their ancestral roots they're probably wouldn't be any one left here.

 

Or in Argentina. Which makes their claim for the Falklands a little hypocritical...

[boyfriday]

Clearly there must be in your fantasy world because you think we need population expansion through immigration to support our elderly.

That isn't actually what I said or advocate, I'm happy to consider ALL the possible solutions to the ageing population, but to simply demonise immigrants without considering their features which ameliorate the ageing population is facile in the extreme.

I don’t think the elderly are a problem, I don’t think the population needs expanding to support them

Well simple statistics and the study of demographics would demonstrate how wrong you are. The problems associated with ageing populations is becoming apparent now, and will be far worse when middle aged people like me are in need of care, pensions and health services in 20+ years time.

and I don’t think we need immigration to fill jobs when we already have more than enough people here that could fill them.

You're familiar with the phrase 'square peg in a round hole'? It doesn't matter if there are enough people here to fill jobs, if they don't have the pre-requisite skills and in the right locations then employers simply won't give them a job.

You motivate them by making them work for their benefits, if they can't have something for nothing they will soon become motivated to better themselves.

 

Hmm..a laudable proposal. I think such people aren't motivated to 'better themselves' they prefer rioting and civil unrest to standing in a job queue.

[JackLakeland]

So is Miliband agreeing with Nick Griffin now. If so they're either both racists or both right..

[MrSmith]

That isn't actually what I said or advocate, I'm happy to consider ALL the possible solutions to the ageing population, but to simply demonise immigrants without considering their features which ameliorate the ageing population is facile in the extreme.

You continue to claim that we need immigrants to support our elderly, when clearly we don't, if we need people to come here a fill job vacancies we wouldn't have any unemployed.

 

Well simple statistics and the study of demographics would demonstrate how wrong you are. The problems associated with ageing populations is becoming apparent now, and will be far worse when middle aged people like me are in need of care, pensions and health services in 20+ years time.

Solved by making the healthier elderly work longer and employing the millions of unemployed instead of flooding the country with immigrants. ants.

 

You're familiar with the phrase 'square peg in a round hole'? It doesn't matter if there are enough people here to fill jobs, if they don't have the pre-requisite skills and in the right locations then employers simply won't give them a job.

Which is why you motivate them and give them the required skills.

 

Hmm..a laudable proposal. I think such people aren't motivated to 'better themselves' they prefer rioting and civil unrest to standing in a job queue.

 

I think many where rioting because they didn't have jobs and where disillusioned by the government.

[boyfriday]

What you're essentially saying is in itself discriminatory because you're saying if the people who are already here have been let down by a poor education system and can't find jobs with their skills which makes jobs worth having or with wages which will make them worth doing then we should write them off, dump them on the scrap heap of benefits and bring in immigrants who will have been given a better education elsewhere at no cost to us or who are willing to live in truly appalling conditions in order to get their hands on some western currency.

No that isn't what I'm saying at all

I include second and third generation immigrants in these groups you are so quick to write off. I wonder if any other group of people was written off as worthless, useless and worth abandoning you would be quite so tolerant? I ssupect you would be the first to cry racism.

Well since I'm writing no one off this paragraph isn't applicable. What I'm doing is being critical of certain people (indigenous oh and 2nd and 3rd generation immigrant feckless) who choose to blame everything other than themselves for their own shortcomings.

 

The educational system is already in place so these people can educate themselves comprehensively, (I'm not writing them off and saying they shouldn't be beneficiaries to that), they find themselves competing with immigrants often where employers pay below the minimum wage which suits illegal immigrants and those with very low skills (I'm not writing them off because I'd rigorously enforce the minimum wage with significant penalties for employers who abuse it to reduce the temptation to employ foreigners illegally)

[JFKvsNixon]

Yes I’m asking a serious question, you think it’s a problem without a solution, and I don't think it’s a problem that isn't solved by making people work longer and getting our unemployed into work instead of letting them sit idle whilst immigrants come here on mass to do the jobs the unemployed should be doing.

 

As people age they need more and more health interventions, a bigger population of elderly people dramatically increases our health budget. As we age we become less independent, increasing our social budget. We loss our ability to earn money, increasing our pension budget. The larger the population of the elderly grows the bigger the problem gets.

 

The elderly pay a lot less tax, meaning that less money is put back into government, the elderly also spend less money on consumer goods, meaning that less money is people put back into the private sector the resulting reduced demand will inevitably mean less jobs.

 

So do you seriously fail to understand how it could be problematic to our country where the costs of running our society are greatly increased at the same time as the income to both the public and private sectors are being greatly decreased?

[boyfriday]

You continue to claim that we need immigrants to support our elderly, when clearly we don't, if we need people to come here a fill job vacancies we wouldn't have any unemployed.

No I'm not, read what I said.

Solved by making the healthier elderly work longer and employing the millions of unemployed instead of flooding the country with immigrants. ants.

No it isn't solved by doing that, government actuaries in the 50's/60's miscalculated the pensions and social care burden of people retiring now (and in years to come), this meant that the system has become pay as you go, because there was never enough money in the pot to support those people, they're living MUCH longer than anticipated and retiring earlier. So we have a position where people in work are paying for this, not national insurance contributions paid by retirees. In years to come the imbalance will be HUGELY overweighted towards retirees. Encouraging a few to work longer, or compelling the majority to do so will not address the problem adequately.

Which is why you motivate them and give them the required skills.

How do we do that then?

 

I think many where rioting because they didn't have jobs and where disillusioned by the government.

 

Ahh..deedums, why didn't they try and compete for the jobs that immigrants are filling, instead of smashing up our city streets? They should be head and shoulders above the competition.

[Mecky]

How do we do that then?

 

I think he'd like to see people motivated by being on the wrong end of a gun or at the very least, by removeing the bottom of the safety net so that people are forced to work for £1 per hour just to buy food. It wouldn't surprise me if he thought the reintroduction of slavery was a good idea.

 

.... and that just about wraps it up for this thread.