Britain is Full and over crowding?

[Badlittlepup]

Clearly there must be in your fantasy world because you think we need population expansion through immigration to support our elderly.

 

I don’t think the elderly are a problem, I don’t think the population needs expanding to support them and I don’t think we need immigration to fill jobs when we already have more than enough people here that could fill them.

 

You motivate them by making them work for their benefits, if they can't have something for nothing they will soon become motivated to better themselves.

 

The elderly do need supporting but uncontrolled immigration working from the logic that any young people being in the country will support the elderly doesn't work. It doesn't work if there aren't enough jobs for those people plus those who are already there so we're bringing one person in and putting another person on benefits, it doesn't work if the introduction of those people leads to wages dropping or stagnating so the amount of tax being paid doesn't increase.

 

I don't believe people should work for their benefits, but I think they should be motivated by the fact work pays a decent wage and gives them a good quality of life unavailable on benefits. If you're bringing in a constant supply of dirt cheap labour who are willing to accept a lifestyle where you are living six to a room and can only afford the absolute basics why on earth would anybody who didn't have to consign themselves to doing a job where you would have to live like that when you can live better on benefits?

[mj.scuba]

Mainly the result of people living longer. Currently the birth rate is below the levels needed to replace the population. In developed countries sub-replacement fertility is any rate below approximately 2.1 children born per woman, ours is beneath this even though there has been an increase over the last decade.

 

So you conceed the population growth of the UK is positive at least.

 

I agree people living longer will contribute, but it is not the only factor at play and contributes far less than immigration.

 

In 2010 for example, a quarter of all births were to migrant mothers.

 

And net immigration has been at something like 150,000+ per year, every year for over a decade. Half of the population increase in the two decades 1991 - 2010 can be directly attributed to net immigration, and net migration will account for over two-thirds of projected population growth.

[Mecky]

The elderly do need supporting but uncontrolled immigration working from the logic that any young people being in the country will support the elderly doesn't work. It doesn't work if there aren't enough jobs for those people plus those who are already there so we're bringing one person in and putting another person on benefits, it doesn't work if the introduction of those people leads to wages dropping or stagnating so the amount of tax being paid doesn't increase.

 

I don't believe people should work for their benefits, but I think they should be motivated by the fact work pays a decent wage and gives them a good quality of life unavailable on benefits. If you're bringing in a constant supply of dirt cheap labour who are willing to accept a lifestyle where you are living six to a room and can only afford the absolute basics why on earth would anybody who didn't have to consign themselves to doing a job where you would have to live like that when you can live better on benefits?

 

Immigration is controlled

[mj.scuba]

Immigration is controlled

 

It isn't. Migrants from the EU are allowed to come here and our government has no say in the matter as long as we are part of the EU.

[Lounge Jay]

It isn't. Migrants from the EU are allowed to come here and our government has no say in the matter as long as we are part of the EU.

 

EU migrants are not as free to enter the UK as certain other EU countries because the UK isn't a signatory of the schengen agreement, which is the gradual abolition of checks at borders.

[Badlittlepup]

No that isn't what I'm saying at all

 

Well since I'm writing no one off this paragraph isn't applicable. What I'm doing is being critical of certain people (indigenous oh and 2nd and 3rd generation immigrant feckless) who choose to blame everything other than themselves for their own shortcomings.

 

The educational system is already in place so these people can educate themselves comprehensively, (I'm not writing them off and saying they shouldn't be beneficiaries to that), they find themselves competing with immigrants often where employers pay below the minimum wage which suits illegal immigrants and those with very low skills (I'm not writing them off because I'd rigorously enforce the minimum wage with significant penalties for employers who abuse it to reduce the temptation to employ foreigners illegally)

 

There is an educational system in place but is it a good one? We're being told by industry that children are leaving school without the basic skills they need for employment and we are plummeting down the international ratings for education. Access to higher education for subjects like engineering and sciences is **** poor, we have people who have learnt the skills on the job or in non-traditional qualifications who cannot progress into higher level jobs because they have no access to the higher education they need to progress and their employers won't fund their training as they used to because they can simply employ an immigrant instead.

 

And I'm not talking about people being paid below the minimum wage, I'm talking about people who are paid the minimum wage or around it. It's simply not worth working for lot of people when you are on minimum wage - it's not a living wage. There are plenty of jobs that pre 1997 or even 2005 have decent enough living wages which don't now. Construction workers waged plummeted even before the recession and jobs in factories, admin jobs and various low level jobs saw wages drop or stagnate.

 

In my opinion putting people through a crap education system then expecting them to do either minimum wage jobs or sit on benefits is writing them off.

[Cyclone]

An immigrant with a higher level education and the necessary skills to do the job?

[Badlittlepup]

Immigration is controlled

 

Under the last government it was controlled extremely badly in what seemed to be little more than a thinly veiled attempt to allow uncontrolled immigration.

[mj.scuba]

Under the last government it was controlled extremely badly in what seemed to be little more than a thinly veiled attempt to allow uncontrolled immigration.

 

...and import votes for them.

[MrSmith]

As people age they need more and more health interventions,

Some do and some don't, that hasn't changed other than, many are now healthier for longer, and the health service drags people’s lives on needlessly and in some cases against their will.

 

A bigger population of elderly people dramatically increases our health budget.

Solved my getting them working and contributing for longer.

 

As we age we become less independent, increasing our social budget. We loss our ability to earn money, increasing our pension budget. The larger the population of the elderly grows the bigger the problem gets.

Some do and some don't, many elderly live very active lives until the day they die, many have the support of their families and many could and would contribute into the system for much longer than they do, the elderly also provide free support to their younger families in the form of free child care.

 

The elderly pay a lot less tax, meaning that less money is put back into government, the elderly also spend less money on consumer goods, meaning that less money is people put back into the private sector the resulting reduced demand will inevitably mean less jobs.

Some do and some don't, many continue to enjoy spending money through their retirement and many could continue working for much longer than they work.

 

So do you seriously fail to understand how it could be problematic to our country where the costs of running our society are greatly increased at the same time as the income to both the public and private sectors are being greatly decreased?

 

By employing the unemployed and reducing the population the public services would be in a much better position to cope, increasing the population and allowing people to sit on their arses being paid for doing nothing is a increasing the burden on the country without alleviating the problems that an older population may cause.