FairDooz Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Extremely short term high frequency trading is a big thing now. More trade & higher frequency trading should help to stabilise markets. I'm not sure we can stand much more of the current stability! The finance markets are drawing some of our most talented people away from the productive economy to become financial engineers of unproven and speculative schemes which are harming the real economy. Banks really do contribute a lot of tax & account for a lot of our GDP in the UK at the moment. We don't want them all to move abroad & pay tax somewhere else. Have they contributed more tax than the bailouts they've received? I doubt it. It's very difficult to seem them at the present time as anything other than parasites - and I'm trying to generous and open minded on the issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 You said it would deter people from poorer backgrounds..I still don't understand why....after graduating they'll have the same loan to pay back as anyone else who took one out..what's wrong with people investing in their own future....? Maybe kids from more affluent households will be supported by their parents. They may not have the same size loans. Maybe their parents will have connections to help them into work after graduating. To be up against that maybe looks daunting to kids from poorer backgrounds. Be interesting to see some solid figures on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Jay Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Maybe kids from more affluent households will be supported by their parents. They may not have the same size loans. Maybe their parents will have connections to help them into work after graduating. To be up against that maybe looks daunting to kids from poorer backgrounds. Be interesting to see some solid figures on this. Just about all students were up in arms about tuition fee's, even though many of them can well afford them, the cheeky chuffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-c-k-j Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I wouldn't say it was all the rich people fault i feel its down to greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Compared to the population of the rest of the world, there aren't many people in this country who cannot class themselves as being rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Jay Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Compared to the population of the rest of the world, there aren't many people in this country who cannot class themselves as being rich. I suppose compared to people in Somalia or somewhere like that, It may seem like I live like a king, but its all relative is'nt it? in rip off Britain my wages dont go that far at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 ...The finance markets are drawing some of our most talented people away from the productive economy to become financial engineers of unproven and speculative schemes which are harming the real economy... Is this the fault of the finance markets, or is the problem caused by the (UK's) attitude towards 'productive (manufacturing/research development) employment'? When my nephew graduated as a physicist (about 10 years ago) he (and a number of his colleagues) were approached by banks who seemed to think that physicists would make excellent employees. Companies in the financial sector are targetting engineers and scientists. Is that because they need engineers and scientists, or is it because they are reluctant to employ graduates with degrees in underwater basket weaving or advanced flower arrangement? Young people have been told (for many years) that: 'A degree is a degree. One degree is as good as another.' Perhaps some employers think otherwise? Maybe kids from more affluent households will be supported by their parents. They may not have the same size loans. Maybe their parents will have connections to help them into work after graduating. To be up against that maybe looks daunting to kids from poorer backgrounds. Be interesting to see some solid figures on this. Bright, well-motivated, ambitious kids will probably do well at University and get good jobs afterwards irrespective of their parents' wealth (or lack thereof.) Those who attend university because 'it's the thing to do' and who lack the talent/application to undertake courses which are likely to lead to a good job may well be deterred from going to uni. If your parents are wealthy and/or 'well connected' then you may indeed have an advantage when it comes to getting a job. - But how is that different to the position 50, 100 or more years ago? Just about all students were up in arms about tuition fee's, even though many of them can well afford them, the cheeky chuffs! AFAIK, no English student at a British University is obliged to pay tuition fees 'up front', so surely the ability (or otherwise) to pay tuition fees is irrelevant? Those who do incur significant debt (and those who do choose to pay 'up front') are going to wish to recover the money they pay out (whether they pay from family resources or from student loans) through the fees they charge (or the salaries they require) in their subsequent employment. 25 years ago my next-door neighbour was a newly-qualified American Doctor. He graduated with tuition debts in excess of $250,000. (1980's prices!) American doctors charge very high fees. - They have to, to be able to repay such large tuition debts. Those UK graduates who do not manage to get well-paid jobs may never be required to repay their tuition loans, but those who do will presumable need to charge more for their services to enable them to do so. 'Tuition Fees' are a double edged sword. Those students who do have to repay them are likely to pass the cost on to those who employ them. If they can't get jobs in the UK which allow them to repay the money they owe, they will either have to be exempted from repaying the loans or go where they can earn enough to repay the loan - and take their skills with them. I wouldn't say it was all the rich people fault i feel its down to greed. by all members of society rich,poor Perhaps. Is it 'greed' or 'unrealistic expectations'? When I was a youth, I was taught not to spend money I didn't have. it was called 'living within your means'. If I wanted something (and I had the money to buy it) I did so. If I didn't have the money, I was supposed to wait until I did have the money. Nobody seemed to think that was unreasonable. Nowadays, if people don't have the money to pay for something, it's assumed they will borrow money (even if they have no chance of repaying it) to buy whatever it is they want. Nobody seems to think that is unreasonable, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Another sensible post from Rupert_Baehr that will no doubt fall on deaf ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Why is it sensible to assert that the brightest from the poorest backgrounds will be happy to take on 40k of debt. The really sensible ones will head to places like Holland and get a more rigorous education for a fraction of the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairDooz Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Agreed a lot of good points. Is this the fault of the finance markets, or is the problem caused by the (UK's) attitude towards 'productive (manufacturing/research development) employment'? Exactly so. ( ... the problem is cause by ... ) (Although you may have perceived RB, that I was blaming the financial sector alone). Although the financial markets do have a lot to answer for, as a country we seem to have forgotten what a balanced economy looks like. At times even the Labour party forgot that a balanced econmy is based on manufacturing upon which the financial services sector depends. They became too close to the apparent miracle workers in the city. The belief that you can make money from money, from borrowed money, independent of a trade in goods, is nothing but belief in pyramid schemes. Well that house of cards is collapsing before our very eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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