Make the rich pay. They caused it!

[lizmachin]

The old system was far better. I went to university and the tax payers paid for it. They even paid my board and lodgings and gave me a nice fat grant to buy beer, fags and cuban heels. No one ever asked me for a penny in return. Those were the days.

Sadly I couldn't repay the taxpayers as I was offered a job overseas and by the time I returned to the UK I was semi retired. Now I have a place in France where I intend to retire and grow grapes. The UK should start paying my pension in around 18 months.

 

 

I, on the ther hand, was an overseas student who paid the fees to go to an English university. That is because they offer far better value for your dollar than universities anywhere else in the world. This is why so many overseas students pay to go to your universities and don't baulk at the price or the fact that your student loans are not available to us.

[Rupert_Baehr]

...As for banks targetting scientists and engineers, (and I've also heard this,) banks can offer salaries that no one else can match. They are then put to work devising software and new algorythms that can rip us off even faster, and take out the human element.

 

These scientists and engineers should be working to find the new cure for cancer or the next big thing, not making phenominally wealthy people even wealthier. But what institute, research or development facility can offer anything much in the way of pay? They can't compete and probably had their grants cut to the bone.

 

It's all mad. I despair.

 

I'm not sure that the financial institutions target scientists and engineers because they require people with scientific or engineering skills. I suspect that they may feel that people who have shown themselves willing to undertake and capable of undertaking - and passing - academically-challenging courses are likely to function well in a challenging commercial environment. I doubt that it takes somebody with a degree in physics to write a piece of software which will prevent arbitrage or will 'cool down' overheated markets (particularly as such software and trading rules have been in place for over 20 years now.)

 

The fabrication of and trading in 'derivatives' is perhaps an area which deserves tighter control, but surely such control is within the remit of governments, not the bankers?

 

Are not the governments responsible for controlling the behaviour of companies operating within their territories? - They don't seem to have any qualms in dictating to private citizens how they may behave; why can't they control large companies?

 

It's a bit early to write off the UK as a manufacturing nation and it would be wrong to ignore the vast technical expertise in the country. - I attended an Engineering exposition in Orlando last November and there were a large number of successful British firms there. I spoke to a number of representatives and the impression I got from them was: "We are living in difficult times. Competition is fierce, but we are very good at what we do. If we can continue to persuade our customers (and our potential customers) that we can provide solutions which will save them money and increase their own ability to compete, we will continue to do well."

 

Manufacturing and research may have reduced in the UK - but they are far from extinct.

 

You asked: "...what institute, research or development facility can offer anything much in the way of pay?"

 

That's a good question. Other countries manage to do so, why can't the UK?

 

The son of a friend of mine graduated with a PhD in a science subject last year. He was head-hunted by a prestigious research organisation, has a well-paid job with excellent career prospects.

 

He doesn't work in the UK - so his skills were one of the country's exports last year.

 

I know somebody else who will soon be looking for work as an engineer with a Master's degree. If he decides to work in the UK, he will (if he's lucky) get a fairly well-paid job. If he goes to the US (where he will pay lower taxes and the cost of living is significantly lower) he will earn about 70% more and if he moves to mainland Europe, he will probably get a job immediately at twice what he would earn in the UK.

 

IMO, job opportunities and career prospects are more important than starting salary - but money does help. (It can't buy you happiness, but it does allow you to pay for some pretty high-class misery ).

[Anna B]

'Make the rich pay! They caused it'

 

With the latest debacle with the Barcleys' bankers (Bob Diamond et al) Are you convinced yet?

[Teddybare]

'Make the rich pay! They caused it'

 

With the latest debacle with the Barcleys' bankers (Bob Diamond et al) Are you convinced yet?

 

He reported it. He wasn't the boss while it was happening. This "debacle" is politically motivated.

 

But yes I'm convinced and believe he should be hung.

[JFKvsNixon]

'Make the rich pay! They caused it'

 

With the latest debacle with the Barcleys' bankers (Bob Diamond et al) Are you convinced yet?

 

Not really, as I don't like to clump people together into convenient groups. I think that life is a little more complicated than that.

[Rupert_Baehr]

... I'm convinced and believe he should be hung.

 

Perhaps he is. - I wouldn't know.

 

One thing is certain however - now that the death penalty has been abolished he won't be hanged.

[Teddybare]

Perhaps he is. - I wouldn't know.

 

One thing is certain however - now that the death penalty has been abolished he won't be hanged.

 

That there's dialect, Hans.

[Jim Graham]

'Make the rich pay! They caused it'

 

With the latest debacle with the Barcleys' bankers (Bob Diamond et al) Are you convinced yet?

 

Politicians caused it. Just look at the shambles in Europe. They make the rules and they have no idea what they are doing. They made the rules the banks worked to. They didn't make bankrupting the company and the country illegal. They just suggested a code of conduct the banks might like to adhere to and they made sure the regulators didn't enforce it in any meaningful way as long as the tax revenues kept flowing in. I understand Bob Diamond only took over Barclays in 2010 and they didn't need to be bailed out.

[Anna B]

They didn't need a bailout BECAUSE they manipulated the Libor rate.

 

Basically they stole it, instead of taking a bailout, so that they could avoid being regulated like RBS.

 

Have you read the other thread? ('Barcleys fined £300 million by the regulators.')

[FairDooz]

Society does need Humanities graduates; it also needs Arts graduates, Language graduates and a steady supply of other talented academics. It probably also needs some 'Meeja Studies' graduates and may even need one or two graduates in Advanced Alpine Flower Arrangement, but it does not need thousands of them.

 

Ah, an excellent point RB.

 

I did Computer Engineering at the University of Manchester and despite an unsuccessful venture into starting a business, I'm back in reasonable employment.

 

My daughter knew better and did Theatre and Costume Design at the University of Croydon. Now a waitress for a restaurant chain.

 

My son (a very bright lad) failed to get into his Meeja Studies course and is now working for a charity (low wages, low prospects).

 

I have friends who never went to university who are doing just fine. A salesman who has travelled the world (has done "The A-Z of world cities"), a banker (oh jeez), an engineer who has his own firm and despite being very modest is reputedly a multi-millionaire, others have retired in their fifties, have a second home, have already bought their retirement bungalow or charabang for travelling Europe.

 

Academia? Very necessary, but overrated as the only route to success in life (Ask Alan Sugar?)

 

Education, Education, Education? A snappy soundbite but not the recipe for the success of a nation.

 

Similarly, to hinge all our prospects for succees as a nation on the City of London is deeply flawed.

 

Anyway, quickly returning to the main point ...

 

"Make The Rich Pay" sounds a little vindictive as a solution to our present problems.

 

Everybody has to pay. Everybody has to find a way to contribute to society and be appropriately rewarded.

 

There's too many at the "top" taking advantage of those beneath them and too many at the "bottom" expecting an easy ride and for others to provide.

 

I'm afraid the answer is hard work for personal advancement and more equality of opportunity for social cohesion and a successful society.

 

Maybe I have a dream ... but not the oratory of MLK!