GrapeApe Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 But they had that before they offended so how will keeping it stop them reoffending. It may make it less likely if they can come out with an intact relationship. No one's saying it will stop re-offending Also there is the reduction of sexual violence inside prison to consider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yes but he's talking about existing relationships not single men/women. Yes the existing relationships that didn't stop them from offending in the first place, I see no reason to think allowing that same relationship to continue in prison will stop someone reoffending. Maybe some of the prisoners offended because they had nothing to lose, (no relationship) if that’s the case there a good argument for encouraging all prisoners to go out on the town, find a mate and start one. Or maybe allow them time to dwell on what they have lost because of their selfish actions whilst free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 It may make it less likely if they can come out with an intact relationship. No one's saying it will stop re-offending Also there is the reduction of sexual violence inside prison to consider They offended whilst free with intact relationship, they’ve already demonstrated that an intact relationship won’t stop them committing crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 It didn't make them less likely to offend when they had it, so how will it make them less likely to offend if they keep it. Based on your conclusions all prisoners should be free to go out and seek love because it would make them less likely to reoffend, we should close all prisons and make criminals join dating agencies. It's like debating with molasses. On one hand you think education is a good pointer towards the reduction of re offending while the logic is they had that importunity while free, so why give them free education? On what grounds do you think education is a good pointer towards an offender not offending in the future? You've provided no evidence that conjugal rights would or could not help towards reduced re offending rate. Education isn't just about shaving a piece of wood into a door or fixing an engine..it's also about how you interact and empathise with fellow human beings, something most criminals most likely never had the life tools or skills to even consider before being sentenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Also there is the reduction of sexual violence inside prison to consider Someone in prison with a loving relationship waiting outside wouldn’t commit sexual violence on anyone; it’s the ones without a loving relationship that are more likely to commit a sexual offence in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 On one hand you think education is a good pointer towards the reduction of re offending while the logic is they had that importunity while free, so why give them free education? On what grounds do you think education is a good pointer towards an offender not offending in the future? You've provided no evidence that conjugal rights would or could not help towards reduced re offending rate. Education isn't just about shaving a piece of wood into a door or fixing an engine..it's also about how you interact and empathise with fellow human beings, something most criminals most likely never had the life tools or skills to even consider before being sentenced. Outside prison they chose not to take up the offer of a good education, inside they are more likely to take up the offer because they have nothing else to do, unless we let women in for them to have sex with, maybe when they were at school they were having sex instead of learning. The evidence that a relationship won't stop reoffending is the fact that that same relationship didn't stop them committing crime in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Someone in prison with a loving relationship waiting outside wouldn’t commit sexual violence on anyone; it’s the ones without a loving relationship that are more likely to commit a sexual offence in prison. Someone in prison with a "loving relationship" wouldn't be in prison in the first place..using your logic. You seem to be arguing with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Someone in prison with a "loving relationship" wouldn't be in prison in the first place..using your logic. You seem to be arguing with yourself. Clearly they are but keeping that loving relationship isn't the deterrent you think it is. A neighbour of mine appeared to have a loving relationship, he was a thief and she helped him spend the money he nicked, when he came out their relationship was still in tack, he started nicking again and she helped him spend it, he was back behind bars within a couple of months. This time she got another feller, he worked and her life was much improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The evidence that a relationship won't stop reoffending is the fact that that same relationship didn't stop them committing crime in the first place. But you're assuming that crimes are based on relationships..which I very much doubt. The indicators are that conjugal rights are a positive in the same way education is a positive..Why do you feel one is less important than the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Clearly they are but keeping that loving relationship isn't the deterrent you think it is. It's not what I think, it's the evidence available. A neighbour of mine appeared to have a loving relationship, he was a thief and she helped him spend the money he nicked, when he came out their relationship was still in tack, he started nicking again and she helped him spend it, he was back behind bars within a couple of months. This time she got another feller, he worked and her life was much improved. Totally irrelevant as an argument as I could counter it with equally positive experiences I've personally witnessed. One lad who works for me as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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